Muckletroll ASKS JIM at OTWA for ownership of a forum.

[rossshow]

I would love to do a forum about art and painting etc. I have 30 years background in marketing art and currently am a practicing artist. I like sharing that knowledge.

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?t=16090&page=5

[KatieP]

Well, that information would be nice and probably would be of use to many, but I doubt seriously that I would be tempted to participate (given that particular host).

[saabsister]

Tee hee. I might be tempted to participate because of who's hosting it. :1JerryJer

[KatieP]

Do I remember some controversy over a Muckletroll bird painting, a couple of years ago? Or was that someone else?

[saabsister]

I think I've managed to piss off both Muck and his wife. I think one of my first posts to otwa involved an art thread. At one point I suggested that Muck's arguments were as vacuous as his art. I think someone else took the heat for that statement. I'd gone out to dinner with dh and missed the ensuing ruckus.

[rossshow]

Yep. You remember correctly.

That was Muck.

[10x]

Oh boy he wants a forum. ROTFLOL.

I doubt they gets one. Or hope they dont.

[sadie999]

Is he the one to whom I made the crack about bad duck paintings? Sometimes I deserve to be sent to my room ...
:breasts2:
(and spanked).

[larruone]

Wasn't he a fairly "regular" guy, until he and his wife got double slapped for
not properly disclosing that they were married?

Seem to remember some heated religion thread or something where they
were backing each other up, then got decimated for not mentioning they
were a tag team.....

Then he came back as Muckletroll, with clearly stated goals of
fomenting dissent and ulcers or something....


Rest assured that I have disclosed MY affiliation with my wife at OTWA! LOL

Kinda sad though... Muckety muck has the experience and knowledge to host an art forum. Politics and baiting aside, of course.

[mivona]

I remember that. Muck was being slammed because of some outrageous post, and Butterfly came in to plead understanding and forgiveness. Later, Muck or Butterfly screwed up and posted under the wrong ID, and that is how their relationship came to light.

Butterfly left in shame, and has never participated at OTWA to any large extent, if at all, since. Muck gave himself the job of resident asshole and lived down to his expectations.

I can just imagine a Muck-forum: :gerbouill

Or perhaps he really would like to shed his assholian-persona after all this time. I can't see that happening. Too much history.

[boardbimbo]

The internet has a very long memory ....

[rossshow]

Since Jim totally ignored Muck's request for ownership of a forum, he's still harping on having an Art Forum.

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?t=34337

No Threads for Fine Art?

---------

A Comment:

I thought there would eventually be an OTWA forum for Fine Art. I'm disappointed to see that this is not the case. Anybody? I know there have been questions about paintings, prints, sculpture etc.. but not recently.. and now I would have no idea where to look for such info etc. Here?

[tekobari]

He has such a poor mind, I can't see how he could discuss the subtleties of art with any knowledge or elegance at all. In fact, unless it's paintings of Elvis on velvet, I'm surprised he's interested in art at all.

Obviously, I don't have much respect for the man.

[justjg]

You can always count on Jim to let his petty grudges kill his site ;)

[Hepburn]

mucklepeas had an art forum at Time For and was much appreciated by those who were interested in art (and sold quite a bit of it too, I might add). I dont see why he cant have one at OTWA. Jayne had a pc forum for graphics and website info...why cant peas have an art forum? And why does politics have to enfringe on art discussion? Someone..I think it was Ross...said once that art has no boundaries when it comes to folks choosing to ignore past or present grievances of other topics. Or some such wording. And he is right.

[Bard77]

You can always count on Jim to let his petty grudges kill his site ;)

:stfu:

If ANY would know about the varied facets of petty, it WOULD be you Jamie.

[saabsister]

mucklepeas had an art forum at Time For and was much appreciated by those who were interested in art (and sold quite a bit of it too, I might add). I dont see why he cant have one at OTWA. Jayne had a pc forum for graphics and website info...why cant peas have an art forum? And why does politics have to enfringe on art discussion?

Jayne has the skills to answer questions about computers. I'd venture to say that Muck is nothing more than a Saturday afternoon painter. He's no more artist than you are. You're craftsmen. And I hesitate to say "craftsmen" because there are craftsmen who are artists. Eveyone who picks up a paintbrush and decorates a canvas, a rock, or a chair is not necessarily an artist...no more than I'm a vet when I hook my cat up to a Ringers solution.

[Hepburn]

Yes...jayne has the skills for pc info. Peas has the skills for art. I consider him an artist just like I consider myself one. Im so hurt you dont think he or I are artists. Not.
Like it or not..he DOES paint, he does it for a living (I dont), and he IS capable of hosting such a forum. Van Gogh was an artist and I wouldnt own one of his paintings because it aint my speed. However..I WOULD enjoy having a Rembrandt...or D'Angelo..or a Peas (which I do own and so do many others who hung out at TF). Beauty and art is in the eye of the beholder, saab. No need to insult.

[Powerhouse]

I have a piece of 'Peas art. I like their stuff.

[Hepburn]

omg...I have a partner in liking Peas stuff...and its...gasp..MIKEY.

:1kiss1:

[Powerhouse]

Even the Dems and Pubes agree once in a while, so don't get all mushy on me, right.

[Hepburn]

You were nice two times so far. Once to say "Noted and appreciated" and "I like Peas work too".

Now that wasnt so hard, was it? If I can hold out my hand to ya, mikey...and not hold a grudge of the awful things you said to me all week....why cant you let go of the past? I never bashed you over and over. I just said to fuck off and never addressed you again except when you hounded me.

Come on Mikey. You miss me and you know it. Lets be pals! Now come here and give me a big smooshy hug, k? :1hug1:


:1both:

[Powerhouse]

...why cant you let go of the past?


I can, but YOUR past is just a prelude to a repeat of your future, and I'm tired of seeing you stuck in that self-humiliating loop you've been in for years now.
There is no escape for you. You can't or won't fix yourself and no one else can do it for you. You're stuck, a broken record of a broken soul and I'm tired of it - timing it - anticipating it - dreading it - and then seeing it, over and over and over again. And guess what - that is the same EXACT thing that others here have told you. But you either don't really care or are in denial. As for me, I've given up. Just blow up, stomp off and get it over with. Until then the only thing I have for you is a nice warm cup of :stfu: and a hearty :1finger1:

Also the comment about Peas art was just a general comment. It was not directed to you or made for your benefit - it just happened to follow your post - get over it.

The 'noted and appreciated' of course was for you, only because you for once acted decently. I don't expect to post it much because I don't expect to see it from you much.

:1evil2:

[Hepburn]

:1hug1:

:1kiss1:

[Powerhouse]

:stfu: and :1finger1:

[Hepburn]

:1chirol_r

Love ya, Mikey.

[rossshow]

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?t=34337

Actually for the moment I don't have any questions. I do however offer 20 years of professional gallery management experience (San Francisco, New York).

Because of that I can offer practical answers to SOME questions.. that others might not know.

I am not particularly strong on art history.. on the other hand I might know where to direct someone with a question about a painting or an artist.

[sadie999]

Make him prove it. He doesn't even post a link to his stuff anymore because he can't take criticism - he's no leader, even for a small online forum.

:1JerryJer

[rossshow]

LOL! I'll link to his stuff:

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=artbybutterfly&sort=3&page=1&rows=250&since=91&rdir=0

[Hepburn]

I like the black cat by the sunflower! Nice!

And I still have the pic of Fatty Cat that he did for me via an unknown friend when Fatty died....AND my boss that owns the apartments still has the pic Peas did of his dog when I commissioned to have that done.

Nobody likes cristism of their art when its done for personal reasons. Hate the artist...love the art. Ross can tell ya that. :1both:

[sadie999]

Ross,

I see her stuff (ABB) - and Nessa seems like a woman's name, so I also see someone else's stuff. Is muck an "artist?" or management/sales? Or is he Nessa? Or?????

Confused and unlooped as I often am,
Sadie

[rossshow]

He is. Or is he Nessa?

HE says:

Both my wife and I are artists and we both paint and list our paintings under the e-bay ID artbybutterfly. My wife uses ABB in her titles and I use Nessa, so you can tell whose work is whose.

[sadie999]

Thank you, Ross. :)

Peace.

[rossshow]

Remember 10x and his topic about Gay Art?

http://www.therossshow.com/showthread.php?t=3030

He just asked MUCK about that same Gay Art!

LOL!

This could get good.

these may offend you. But lets see what advice you would give.

[saabsister]

Nobody likes cristism of their art when its done for personal reasons.

Are you assuming that the criticism of Muck's (or your) "art" is done for personal reasons? Perhaps the criticism is being done from a purely formalist approach?

Most art is derivative in some way but a great artist will expound on a theme in a new manner. I'd say that it's often difficult to differentiate between some Picassos and some Bracques, and Cubism itself rips off African and Asian art. But... Muck's paintings and frogs on rocks don't rise to my standard of art. It's hobby painting.

[10x]

Will be interesting to see what he resonds with Ross. Talk about having the material in hand to test em. Will ask for proof of his claims also.

[10x]

Reponses to that thread were pulled. Oh well. Expected. and tells me how a form would go with him as admin.

[rossshow]

Jim deleted YOUR posts, Roy.

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?t=34337

Wonder why? Guess Muck decided to report it rather than answer it.

It's odd that Jim would delete BOTH your posts, Roy.

[10x]

No big deal ross I am sure the subject mater of the art would be ofensive to a lot of folks. My question on refrences being removed amuses me. It had the awnser to the question asked of me also. Make the post left look foolish. Oh well.
I doubt such a form by that user would be unbiased as it would need to be.
Oh well. I should start a thread asking about photos by a famed art critic writter Edward Luce-Smith and see were that goes. I doubt I will.

Want to bet this board was in the complaint. LOL

[tekobari]

saab, Picasso and Braques often worked on each other's paintings, too. That must have been one lively studio.

Roy, I give you all the credit in the world for taking that subject over there. What an inspired idea! LOL

[Powerhouse]

Jim deleted YOUR posts, Roy.

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?t=34337

Wonder why? Guess Muck decided to report it rather than answer it.

It's odd that Jim would delete BOTH your posts, Roy.


Whole thread is gone: Invalid Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the webmaster

[10x]

Well I am going to ask about one that is done in the potograpy end by a promenit art critic and writer. Edward Lucie-Smith.

I have signed erotic photos from this person. Just emailed them to see if they will verify that they are there work.
I have pencils from an erotic iilistrator Ira C Smith also. that I am going to have to ask how to make sure are originals and not prints.

I can keep this on on going for awile. I may not use that site for such either due to the reposne I got. LOL

Seems the Gay subject may be a bit to much for the resident art expert there.

[Hepburn]

Are you assuming that the criticism of Muck's (or your) "art" is done for personal reasons? Perhaps the criticism is being done from a purely formalist approach?

Most art is derivative in some way but a great artist will expound on a theme in a new manner. I'd say that it's often difficult to differentiate between some Picassos and some Bracques, and Cubism itself rips off African and Asian art. But... Muck's paintings and frogs on rocks don't rise to my standard of art. It's hobby painting.
Yeah..to you its hobby painting. To each his or her own, opinion wise. And I KNOW the criticism of Peas and my art is "personal reasons". You dont have it in you to say anything positive when it comes to your "enemies". So give it to someone else cuz I aint buying it. no. wait. YOU arent buying it. LOL. Thats ok....peas nor I need your business...as you can see...there are others who like our "hobby".

btw..whats yours? Sneering your nose up?

[10x]

Wow some one pissed on, or is that off the Great Hep. LOL

How many times have I seen artist with such egos about their crap (oh excuse me art).

[saabsister]

Everyone who flosses his/her teeth isn't a dentist ...just as everyone who works in acrylics or oils isn't an artist. There are some standards and what constitutes those standards is debatable. The definition of art is debatable. There are classes devoted to art criticism, art history, color theory, the philosophy of art, as well as the various genres. Which did you take, Hep?

I don't think all artists have to be formally trained. There are people with natural talent. If you'd like to see a rather current movie which expands on this, rent "Born Into Brothels". It follows several Indian children who lived in brothels and were given cameras. A couple of these kids are truly outstanding artists...naturals.

I mainly work in B&W photography...a genre destined to go the way of the dinosaurs. I haven't done anything in a couple of years because of construction on my house. I expect to get my darkroom back soon. Whether I'm an artist is neither here nor there. I've been trained and have a pretty good eye. I've recently had the opportunity to work with a couple architects, a designer, and a videographer. Visually, we mesh. But that may be because we went to school in the 60s and 70s when minimalism was the rage.


10x, you can give Muck a challenge with some questions about Sally Mann's photography too.

[10x]

yes

[socrfan2]

Butterfly's stuff is technically competent but boring and unimaginative. Stock stuff. On a par with the girls and kittens with the big eyes that were so popular years ago.

Muck's isn't even that. He can't draw and he can't paint. He'd get an F in any 8th grade art class. Not a comment on his politics, a comment on his "art." Calling it amateurish would be an insult to amateurs.

[sadie999]

From The Free Dictionary: (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/art)

art 1
n.
1. Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.
2.
a. The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium.
b. The study of these activities.
c. The product of these activities; human works of beauty considered as a group.
3. High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty; aesthetic value.
4. A field or category of art, such as music, ballet, or literature.
5. A nonscientific branch of learning; one of the liberal arts.
6.
a. A system of principles and methods employed in the performance of a set of activities: the art of building.
b. A trade or craft that applies such a system of principles and methods: the art of the lexicographer.
7.
a. Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation: the art of the baker; the blacksmith's art.
b. Skill arising from the exercise of intuitive faculties: "Self-criticism is an art not many are qualified to practice" Joyce Carol Oates.
8.
a. arts Artful devices, stratagems, and tricks.
b. Artful contrivance; cunning.
9. Printing Illustrative material.

art 2
v. Archaic
A second person singular present indicative of be.

It's very subjective. One person's obscenity is another person's art.

I've seen Hep's stuff, and it's very nice. What I've seen seems to draw from a place of joy - something I never remember seeing in her posts. Is it art? Do I look like an art critic?

As to the ABB and Nessa stuff - not my thing. But people bid and buy, so one person's yawn is another person's art. There seems to be little soul or significance in the stuff they do, but heck, maybe there's a lot of talent there and in the commercialization of it, the soul (if either has one <<<that's a personal comment rather than a dispassionate one) has gotten lost in an effort to put food on the table. They wouldn't be the first "artists" to become Hallmark greetings cards out of financial necessity.

In order to figure out who is an artist, who is a craft person, and who is just making mud pies, we'd have to come to a concensus on what art is. And that will never happen.

As to "gay art," well hell, what is gay art? Two women going at it is almost every straight man's fantasy, so that would be straight art, yes? Two men going at it - maybe that's straight art also - for straight women.

Peace.

[Hepburn]

"Born Into Brothels".

I had that video in my hand this morning...and I should have taken it, but I put it back down. Ill fetch it tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks Sadie. I think.
You maybe have not seen joy in my posts because you choose not to see it. Look harder, and ignore what you THINK you see in my words. I know..hard to convey body language in written form...but Ill try harder to show ME..not what you think you see..or are told to see..or are influenced to see. Forget everyone else, sadie. See ME.

[rossshow]

Art is art. If an artist says so, it's art.

However, Muck was attampting to put himself across as an expert.

ANY expert worth a damn would have addressed 10x's question, point blank, guns blazing. Muck, instead, reported thos posts to Jim, and then totally pussed out, requesting Jim to delete the whole thread.

Sadly, this may be the last we hear of this issue at OTWA. Muck has no balls, that much has been proven.

I'd of rather he kept it up. That would of been much more fun than his silence on this issue will be.

[tekobari]

Art is art. If an artist says so, it's art.

However, Muck was attampting to put himself across as an expert.

ANY expert worth a damn would have addressed 10x's question, point blank, guns blazing. There you go.

[rossshow]

Now all we have left of all this is the original request for forum ownership:

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?t=16090&page=5

I would love to do a forum about art and painting etc. I have 30 years background in marketing art and currently am a practicing artist. I like sharing that knowledge.

I'm guessing he's gearing up for the holiday season.

Sad, if he would have been someone else, or if he actually had the balls to address the issue and push for a forum, it could have been a valuable position for him.

OTWA gets many many hits.

[Powerhouse]

See ME.
:1barf1:

[rossshow]

Muck could always head over to the OLAC :2gamecock art forum (would they allow Muck over there?)

http://www.therossshow.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5

[rossshow]

No. That thread still exsists.

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?t=34366

That's odd. It's showing up for me, again.

I wonder if Muck will manifesto, totally, from OTWA? That's what happened last time.

[10x]

ah well did not like the art I posted ehhh! ROTFLMAO
Can I link to the ebay auctions in question that I asked opinion on over their Ross?

[rossshow]

Can I link to the ebay auctions in question that I asked opinion on over their Ross?

I thought so. Did you get any indication of a reason why your posts were deleted?

[10x]

Email was still the old one. When mod I checked cuz I did not recive anything.
I canged it afterwords. Not wored about it Ross

Here is what I did.
Muck what is your opinion of this art, I asked over on TRS already.
I advised that he would not like the material posted.
Ross as per our agreement a long time ago you may delet any post I make, and or delete parts of it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Delmas-Howe-American-Gay-AIDS-oil-Christian-Catholic_W0QQitemZ7354192261QQcategoryZ20135QQssPa geNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Delmas-Howe-Male-Gay-Nude-Rodeo-Oil-Western_W0QQitemZ7354192188QQcategoryZ20135QQssPag eNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Was asked a question about if I new the art was of the artist I said it was.
My response was Yes
And I asked to please provide refrence to the claims made by Muck.

Both post were removed, and after posting here: the one that asked me the question.

[socrfan2]

You maybe have not seen joy in my posts because you choose not to see it. Look harder, and ignore what you THINK you see in my words. I know..hard to convey body language in written form...but Ill try harder to show ME..not what you think you see..or are told to see..or are influenced to see. Forget everyone else, sadie. See ME.

Oh Jeeesus, where's the barfing smiley?

Sheesh, Hepburn, do you have any pride? Are you so totally oblivious that you really think there's anyone here who doesn't "see the real you"? Gawd, what dreck. Isn't it enough that you've managed to damn near kill this place in 2 weeks? Now you're trolling for more "frens" to collect until your next temper tantrum?