View Full Version : CA Mayor proclaims Wi-Fi a civil rights issue!
Powerhouse
10-04-2005, 06:38 AM
Why DO these freaks COME from???? :1crazy:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20051004/wr_nm/telecoms_wireless_sanfrancisco_dc_2
Tue Oct 4, 2:05 AM ET
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, who became internationally known for his campaign a year ago to legalize gay marriage, said on Monday he considered wireless Internet access a fundamental right of all citizens...
...Wireless access can be seen a basic right that should be available not just to business professionals but also lower-income citizens. "This is a civil rights issue as much as anything else," Newsom said.
:1crazy:
Buffalo
10-04-2005, 09:05 AM
What a fuckin weird world Mike :1dig:
Caped Crusader
10-04-2005, 12:35 PM
I think "civil rights issue" was an extremely poor choice of words, but that's no reason to ignore his message, with which I am in total agreement.
mango man
10-04-2005, 05:31 PM
I gues it logically follows tht if wifi is availible , everyone must have the right to a device to accssees it.
free laptops to all
Heartland
10-04-2005, 06:38 PM
I doubt this will ever get off the ground. How long have we had telephones, yet telephone service is not available for free to anyone? You can get reduced-cost telephone service, but it's not the full service that people normally get. There's a limit on how many calls can be made per month with the reduced-cost service.
Jon, I'm interested as to why you think this should be considered a right, or made available to those who can't afford it. I don't have wireless service, and I've never felt that I had a right to have it without paying full price. I've actually gotten along just fine without it, as far as I know.
free equal access to information...
if some are denied - how is that - right...?
p.s. telephone service - (really truly) - ought to be a piblic utility...
- so should be all mass transit...
p.s.s...
what - really - what in the - #@&*%$# - do we pay taxes for - anyway...?
i mean really - what the - %$$&* - do we get...???!!!
- *@%$#...
Heartland
10-05-2005, 07:04 AM
I need more specifics. Equal access to information, but what kind of information? This is San Francisco where this is being attempted, and I'm sure they have a huge and very nice public library system there that would serve most informational needs.
Emergency info? We used to have a funky weather radio that would come to life and squawk out severe weather warnings.
Frankly, I'm pretty much on your side, Dusa, but I'd rather see low-income and working-class people get the basic necessities (like decent health care), and I'd like to see our education system drastically overhauled, before worrying about whether everyone has a laptop computer.
Heartland
10-05-2005, 07:15 AM
i mean really - what the - %$$&* - do we get...???!!! Don't ask me. My mind is still boggled over the price tag of our new football stadium being built here -- $500 million. :1eek2:
Ah, another thought ... instead of a laptop for emergency info, maybe it would be cheaper to get everyone a cb radio.
yeah - sandy - i was thinking - somewhat - along those lines - as well - emergency contact - yep - that's important - and - yep - radios would work - (and - i'm thinking that when we all go broke - that's what we may be reduced to anyway - hahahaha)...
as for libraries..
i'm all for them - except for - a couple things / gripes...
first gripe - access again - unless one lives in a big city - or - a large university town - the local library - might be somewhat limited - some but not all - have interlibrary exchange programs - which makes access - somewhat better...
still - i'm concerned with - instant access - there are all sorts of reasons why - security issues - etc. - if - only some are privy - to instant access - while others - are limited - this sets up - an imbalance - a screwy class structure - (which is what we've got)...
i was going to add something else to that - but - hmmmm - well - i'm groggy at the moment - it'll come back to me - sometime - i'm sure...
second gripe - microfilch - yegads - that stuff sucks...
did you know - ? - that there has been an effort - within libraries - since sometimes in the 1970's - (or possibly going back to the 1960's - to - shread - books - and - newspapers - and - transfer - (eventually - everything - is the crazy plan - which - btw - was instituted by the cia - who have infiltrated libraires - i kid you not - this is not some wacky conspiracy theory - this is the truth - books have been written about it by reporters) - where was i - - oh yes - - to transfer - everything - onto microfilch - really - microfilch is crap - and - unlike prior claims - it - does - disentigrate...
ooops - shred - and i did - check for typos - yeah yeah - groggy...
another thing - not the thing that i forgot - but - something else:
information - not just - access to emergency contact - but rather - real information - instantly available - allows people to assess - a situation - to be more well informed - about the world - about current events - in order to - make good decisions - concerning their lives - if a poor person - say - in a rural area - perhaps without a car - or something like that - needs to arrange transportation - to and from - some far off - info depository - they are - less able than others with easier access - to make good informed decisions in thier lives - and - are more likely to remain - poor...
another thing - hahahaha - yeah - just call me a - FREAK - lalalalalala...
do you have access to a - LAW LIBRARY...?
i'm lucky - cause - i do - i live in a capitol city - and - the law library - is only - ten blocks away...
i successfully - entirely - on my own - while many might use a lawyer - argued - two cases - in court - and - won - thanks to - research i did - in the law library...
little gripe about that - as well...
their index / card - catalog system - is - extremely confusing - took me weeks and weeks - to find the info that i needed...
internet library access - with a good search function - would have saved me - a lot of time...
as i said - though - i was / am - lucky - to have a law library - nearby...
- most people don't...
p.s. that - up there - was back in the mid 80's - before - i had internet access...
Caped Crusader
10-05-2005, 09:17 AM
I doubt this will ever get off the ground. How long have we had telephones, yet telephone service is not available for free to anyone? You can get reduced-cost telephone service, but it's not the full service that people normally get. There's a limit on how many calls can be made per month with the reduced-cost service.
I take it you've never heard of Wireless Philadelphia.
Jon, I'm interested as to why you think this should be considered a right, or made available to those who can't afford it. I don't have wireless service, and I've never felt that I had a right to have it without paying full price. I've actually gotten along just fine without it, as far as I know.
You do not have it because your local government has not made it available. You have never needed wireless service because you have a traditional connection.
Phone service is different, in that corporations own the phone lines. Corporations own the cable lines. Corporations own cell phone towers.
Once the government builds a citywide WiFi network, the bulk of the cost has already been spent. Corporations cannot own the air through which the signal will travel. At least not yet... This is what separates your service from WiFi.
There is only one argument against the idea: It will eat into the profits of telecommunications companies. My response to that is a big whoop-dee-fucking-doo. Corporations do not own the internet, so why should they control the only portals to it? I hope this spreads to every city across the country, and drives the ISP's right into the ground.
The ISP's, of course, say this would hamper the development of technology, but that's a crock of shit if I've ever heard one. If you want to sell a product, and you have a FREE service as your competition, you're damn well going to roll out some new technology worth my money, or you'll be closing your doors.
Frankly, I'm pretty much on your side, Dusa, but I'd rather see low-income and working-class people get the basic necessities (like decent health care), and I'd like to see our education system drastically overhauled, before worrying about whether everyone has a laptop computer.
No one is offering anyone a laptop. These networks should be built with tax dollars, because they serve the public interest. Once they are built, what do you have for which you can charge users? The air? Should everyone get a monthly bill for the oxygen they breathe? I'm sure there's a company somewhere that would love to implement that! :rolleyes:
quote that i love by issac asimov:
information = freedom...
-----------------
there are powers that be - (and - which have been - since the beginning of what we know as - "civilization") - trying their damnedest - to limit the common people's access to information...
- with the internet we are finally making it harder for them to do that to us...
whoops - isaac...
additional - this may not just be a civil right - i believe - this is:
...a constitutional right - according to the freedom of information act...
Heartland
10-05-2005, 02:26 PM
Well, I'm going to have to do a little research on this topic, because I obviously don't know what I'm talking about. No, I've never heard of Wireless Philadelphia. You know I'm an old fogey, Jon. I'm not up on all the latest inventions. Hell, I just finally dumped my VCR for a TiVo, and never have had a DVD player. I'm probably the only person in the world without a cell phone, although I'm finally considering getting one.
So are you saying, Jon, that only the wireless service would be free, but it will still be up to all the poor (and rich, and in-between) people to purchase something with which they can use the service?
Dusa, I worked in my city's public library system for several years, and I'm still proud of the system we have. It's awesome. I'm also lucky enough to have access to a law library, since the I.U. School of Law is in my city.
I also am aware that rural areas don't have the same access, because they don't have enough people in their counties who can or will pay for it. Our library system is run on property tax dollars and bonds, and only those in our county can use it, unless they pay an annual fee, which was $135 last time I checked. We do have interlibrary loans available, too.
sandy... :)
i love libraries - i don't mean to put them down - i think they're great...
my mom and my mil - both - were librarians at the univ. of illinois - and - at the univ. of wisconsin - respectively - as well - my mom was a librarian - for many years at the - champaign - (ill.) - library...
Heartland
10-05-2005, 03:10 PM
Oh, I didn't think you were putting them down. I will say that I haven't used microfiche at a library since the 70's, though. The only thing I would've needed it for would've been back issues of newspapers and magazines, and with all the databases they're connected to now, you don't even need those much anymore.
They're remodeling our Central Library downtown, and it's going to be awesome when it's finished. However, it's about, oh, just $30 million over budget so far! Sheesh.
I still love the musty old stacks. I would sometimes have to go into the dark stacks upstairs at the main library to find something, and they were spooky, but I found all kinds of cool things up there.
mmm - microfilch - well - i know some libraries were still using it - fairly recently - hopefully - tho - (?) - most have switched to something better...
musty stacks - i love them too - even if - they make me sneeze...! :lol
our public library is being remodled - also - and - i think that it'll be real nice - and - yes - a lot of money going into it...
Heartland
10-05-2005, 04:02 PM
We're 6th on the list, Dusa. Is that you at No. 15? Woohoo!
http://www.haplr-index.com/HAPLR100.htm
Heartland
10-05-2005, 04:03 PM
Oh wait, you're 5th in your population category. Even bigger woohoo!
:1rotfl2:
wasn't going to mention it - but - now that you brought it up...
univ. of illinois library - where my mom worked - has the world's largest holdings...
Heartland
10-05-2005, 04:22 PM
Wow, I wouldn't have guessed that, but that's great. I would've thought some ancient library in some monastery somewhere .... oh boy, wouldn't you love to visit one of those?
Those ones down in the third category for Indiana are college towns ... Monroe County is where I.U. is, and St. Joseph County is where Notre Dame is.
well - they have the - largest public university library holdings - that is...
i suppose that - maybe - ?- the vatican has the larger holdings...
and - yes - i'd love to poke around in an old monastery... :D
i've been to - (passed through) - notre dame university - i thought it was really pretty...
p.s. seems odd - though - that the haplr index - doesn't list - the university of illinois library - but - includes notre dame and the universtiy of indiana...
adding a link on the univ. of illinois - which has the info on their holdings - but - here's a link anyway:
academic library - third largest - after harvard and yale - but - first in total...
http://www.uiuc.edu/overview/explore/library.html
oh hahahaha - sometimes this no edit really bothers me - was going to say something else - and - smudged my sentence - but anyway - oh well...! :p
Heartland
10-05-2005, 06:39 PM
Hey now! No such thing as University of Indiana ... it's always just Indiana University.
There is a University of Indianapolis, though. That's where my daughter got her degree.
There's also Indiana University-Purdue University at Indianapolis, which is a mouthful, so they call it IUPUI. My doctor's office is there, part of the med school.
Now that we've totally derailed this thread, I'm going to watch Lost. :1bonk1:
Caped Crusader
10-05-2005, 07:16 PM
Well, I'm going to have to do a little research on this topic, because I obviously don't know what I'm talking about. No, I've never heard of Wireless Philadelphia. You know I'm an old fogey, Jon. I'm not up on all the latest inventions. Hell, I just finally dumped my VCR for a TiVo, and never have had a DVD player. I'm probably the only person in the world without a cell phone, although I'm finally considering getting one.
I'm a total technology whore. Don't bother buying a DVD player now. Either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD will be replacing it soon, anyway.
So are you saying, Jon, that only the wireless service would be free, but it will still be up to all the poor (and rich, and in-between) people to purchase something with which they can use the service?
Yes. You can get a pretty good family PC for $300 or so now, and offering free internet access will surely encourage more low-income households to purchase computers.
And just for the record, I am an adamant proponent of socialized health care. I also believe more tax dollars should be spent, and spent more wisely, on education. In fact, I believe education in public universities should be free. But those are different battles, and I believe in this, as well.
Then again, the Colts definitely need a new stadium for Peyton Manning, too. The RCA Dome is a dump, and between the games and the conventions Indy likes so much, it will generate revenue and benefit the local economy.
it was fun derailing - let's do it some more - hahaha - yeah - sandy - i agree - with what you mentioned earlier - and - CC above - concerning health care - i too think that - we ought have socialised health care - as well as - free public universities - okay - yep - different subjects - anyway - i hope you enjoyed your show - and - have a nice night...! :)
Heartland
10-05-2005, 09:27 PM
That show is confounding me more every week. :2headspin
Yes, the Triplets need a new stadium, and a retractable roof is really exciting. The new one will be soooo much more attractive than that ugly monstrosity that we're still being taxed for, too. But $500 million .... oh man, it just sticks in my craw when I think of all the good that could be done with that money.
http://www2.indystar.com/articles/5/203557-4955-196.html
I wonder what name they'll put on it. Someone suggested Taxpayer Stadium, which I think is an excellent choice. After they put RCA's name on the Hoosier Dome, RCA closed up shop here and sent their work overseas. So we have other RCA ugly monstrosities (factories) here as well.
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