Speaking of hot auctions...

[blissmeister]

Here's a few:

link edited. We're not looking to create the next Lee Baltzer, here.

:1JerryJer

[rossshow]

So? 93% feedback.

Bad, but not the worse I've seen.

No point to this thread, that I can see.

[blissmeister]

Powerseller with 93.5% feedback. I don't think I've seen a powerseller's feedback this far from par.

[rossshow]

I do believe you've mistaken the focus of this board. We really don't make a habit of skewering sellers, just for the sake of skewering.

[Toy Ranch]

Is this someone you know?

[rossshow]

I don't know him, and I'm sure Bliss doesn't.

I hope I made myself clear, it's a fine line about posting about ebay sellers.

For instance, talk about hot auctions is cool. Like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-HOLLYWOOD-SIGN_W0QQitemZ5637020011QQcategoryZ1469QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

That would be a link to an auction that I would consider hot, or interesting.

We all know there are power sellers who have low feedback. That's not news, or fun, or even "hot".

Talking about a seller we don't know, or who's not posting on boards, just to say "Hey: Crooked Powerseller" is NOT OK.

Just as soon as this particular crooked powerseller posts on a board, you just let us know, Bliss.

[Heartland]

I'm not disagreeing with you, Ross. I've never been a powerseller, but aren't they supposed to have at least 98% positive feedback to retain their powerseller status? I think perhaps (not sure) Bliss' post was to point out damning evidence of eBay's failure to follow their own policy.

It could have been done without linking to someone's feedback to prove it. As it is, the posts to the thread are so confusing that it's not having any impact, anyway.

The thread title was whacked, though. "Hot auction?" Why not try for a discussion on what the thread is really about, instead of playing games with the thread? Unless the purpose of the thread is to play games, of course. Something like "I noticed an eBay Powerseller has less than 94% feedback, and 98% is the stated policy for retaining Powerseller status. Why is eBay not following their own policy?" That might have garnered some discussion instead of whatever you want to call this.

[Toy Ranch]

Sandy~

PowerSellers are approved and removed from the program on a periodic review basis. So if someone doesn't maintain the required sales level or feedback percentage for a month, they get a notice that they need to improve it in the next month to maintain their status in the program. This is not a new thing... it's been that way for several years now.

[Toy Ranch]

Oops... continued...

Likewise, selling $1000 worth of crap doesn't automatically get you in the door, you have to do it for a couple of months in a row, at least, before you get the invitation to join the program.

And for the life of me, I still fail to grasp the real value/benefit of being a PowerSeller... like it's a big deal whether or not someone is "in" the club or not...

[rossshow]

Bliss' post was to point out damning evidence of eBay's failure to follow their own policy.

No.

He was pointing directly to some seller we don't even know, nor ever heard about, one that doesn't post on these boards. His reasons are unclear, but I perceived it as skewering that seller.

We just don't do that here, for the sake of pointing to a bad seller, for the sake of pointing out ebay's lack of policy enforcement.


The thread title was whacked, though. "Hot auction?"

Bliss made up that title, because the seller who's feedback was linked to is named hotauctions-something-or-other

Why not try for a discussion on what the thread is really about, instead of playing games with the thread?

It was pretty muchy a netcopping thread, linking to a seller's poor feedback. Not to some board post this seller made.

Unless the purpose of the thread is to play games, of course.

Maybe Blis is playing games. Maybe Bliss wants TRS to create the next Lee Baltzer?

Something like "I noticed an eBay Powerseller has less than 94% feedback, and 98% is the stated policy for retaining Powerseller status. Why is eBay not following their own policy?" That might have garnered some discussion instead of whatever you want to call this.

That can be said without pointing directly to a particular seller. Unless that seller is a board poster somewhere, posting some stupid stuff, or some bullshit.

TRS has never been about lynching sellers in public, Sandy. Unless they are already here (in our little circle of boards, or on Ebay's boards).

OK? The only game I played was to delete the link to the seller's feedback. A discussion of ebay's policy enforcement is always welcome, as long as we speak without lynching some seller we don't even know.

[Heartland]

No, not OK, Ross. If you're going to quote me, please do it in context and don't quote only part of my sentence in order to change its meaning. What I actually said was:

I think perhaps (not sure) Bliss' post was to point out damning evidence of eBay's failure to follow their own policy.

Now it's OK. I wasn't disagreeing with your stance, as I pointed out in my first sentence, so I didn't really need the rest of your explanation. I think it would make a good discussion on eBay policy, WITHOUT the netcopping aspect, and that was my point. I didn't see the link, therefore had no idea what it went to.

Bobby, thanks for the explanation.

[Heartland]

My next question would be for Bliss:

On what date did the seller's positive rating drop below 98%? This, of course, can be answered without any links. If it has been less than three months, then it would seem that eBay is adhering to policy, and the PS status should be removed after three months have passed. If it's been longer, it would seem that eBay is, for reasons unknown, letting a bad seller slide.

Bobby, I forgot to address your other point. I don't see a benefit to buyers at all. For sellers, I think many of them are glad to have a PS rep who they can call on the telephone with questions or problems. Also, do they still offer group insurance to powersellers? That would be another benefit. As far as a benefit for making more sales, maybe it does have a sublime effect on buyers, but I'd think experienced buyers wouldn't be fazed by that logo. It could attract newbies, though, and I would think all sellers would like to attract newbies in any way possible.

I remember a couple of years ago, I used to find several sellers who "stole" the PS logo and used it on their auctions to attract business. If the logo does't link to their PS page, then they're not supposed to have it, and can be reported.

[Toy Ranch]

My next question would be for Bliss:

On what date did the seller's positive rating drop below 98%? This, of course, can be answered without any links. If it has been less than three months, then it would seem that eBay is adhering to policy, and the PS status should be removed after three months have passed. If it's been longer, it would seem that eBay is, for reasons unknown, letting a bad seller slide.

The seller had around 300 feedback, and a pile of recent negs.

Bobby, I forgot to address your other point. I don't see a benefit to buyers at all. For sellers, I think many of them are glad to have a PS rep who they can call on the telephone with questions or problems.

The reps for lower level powersellers really are not much help with questions or problems, unless you can get them to kick it up to a higher level support person, for the most part.


Also, do they still offer group insurance to powersellers? That would be another benefit.

I did check into that once, it was many fewer benefits than my plan, at about the same money... and the only way to contact someone about it was via webform. Sorry, I'm not going to have freaking HEALTH INSURANCE when I can't talk to someone about it!

As far as a benefit for making more sales, maybe it does have a sublime effect on buyers, but I'd think experienced buyers wouldn't be fazed by that logo. It could attract newbies, though, and I would think all sellers would like to attract newbies in any way possible.

When a member of the program, I've elected to "hide" the logo over the past few years. Why? It's a turn-off for some buyers as much as it's a turn-on for others. And you address the main reason below:

I remember a couple of years ago, I used to find several sellers who "stole" the PS logo and used it on their auctions to attract business. If the logo does't link to their PS page, then they're not supposed to have it, and can be reported.

Fuck! See, this is WHY I hate all the fucking T&S people! Who the fuck CARES? It's just a game of someone with no fucking power in their lives playing "I can be the boss of you" on eBay.

Sure, they were using it without permission. Big whoop! Who cares! I'll bet there are businesses down the street with expired Chamber of Commerce memberships and plaques hanging on their walls, too. Grab a list of current members and walk around policing that next time, at least you'll get some exercise and meet some folks while you're at it.

Sorry Sandy, I like you, I really do, but this crap pisses me off to no end. And eBay would be more responsible about these things if people would QUIT minding THEIR business for them.

[Heartland]

And eBay would be more responsible about these things if people would QUIT minding THEIR business for them. Sorry, I don't agree with that. eBay made it clear, time and again that they didn't police their site, and that they expected and welcomed the users to do it. This was published policy on their site. Sure, some took it too far, and still do. But eBay asked for it when they transferred that responsibility to the users instead of doing it themselves, something with which I have always disagreed.

Yes, I did report a few who stole the PS logo. I don't and won't feel bad about that. I can't feel bad about reporting someone who is scamming the bidders -- bidders that all of us sellers wanted to keep around on eBay and knew they wouldn't stick around if they felt cheated or scammed. Those were dishonest sellers, and they were using unfair and illegitimate practices to try to steal bidders from other sellers whose listings were honest.

I didn't "expose" them in public (or in private), I just quietly reported them, and the logos were removed. Their auctions weren't cancelled, and they weren't NARU'd. I really think you're overreacting this time, but I like you too, Bobby. :D

[sadie999]

I see the whole ebay policing itself thing as the same as the blood bank screening blood thing back in the 1980s.

How many lawsuits will it take before it's cheaper to police the site than it is to fight in court?

Ebay doesn't care about the community because of a few reasons. It's not supposed to care about the community, it's supposed to care about its stockholders - an argument could be made that the community could turn to such shit under this umbrella of noncaring that eventually the stockholders would suffer, but the company's first responsibility is to its stockholders. And the other reason ebay doesn't care is because it's a business and businesses don't have feelings.

Ultimately, the only way ebay changes is when not changing costs more money. So, I guess another argument could be made that everytime a net cop gets a bad seller's account closed down, that's one other customer who didn't get ripped off and so won't sue eBay and so eBay has less impetus to police the site.

Peace.

[Powerhouse]

The seller had around 300 feedback, and a pile of recent negs.


Actually, almost half that, and the negs/neutrals = > the positives for the past month.

Ebay needs to move quicker to protect it's Powerseller image or it will continue to become a joke to savy bidders.

[Toy Ranch]

Actually, almost half that, and the negs/neutrals = > the positives for the past month.

Ebay needs to move quicker to protect it's Powerseller image or it will continue to become a joke to savy bidders.


What do you believe is the purpose of the PowerSeller program?

[Heartland]

Its main purpose is to reward sellers who pay eBay a lot of money every month.

Its secondary purpose is to attract buyers to those sellers' auctions -- otherwise no Powerseller logo would exist at all, and it would just be a private program for top sellers. Face it, the Powerseller program gives a seller bragging rights by allowing them to display that logo.

I think because many of us are so rules-savvy and have been a part of eBay boards where we've pretty much seen it all, we lose sight of the fact that most eBay buyers have never even been to the boards, and a very high number, I'm sure, haven't waded through the novel-length policies, including the user agreement. A Powerseller logo to those bidders may say "Experience, Trustworthiness, Customer Satisfaction, Approved by eBay" ... even if that is not the stated purpose of the program, which most bidders don't bother to find out.

[Toy Ranch]

Its main purpose is to reward sellers who pay eBay a lot of money every month.

Or to say it another way, it's main purpose is to encourage sellers to pay eBay a lot of money every month.

Its secondary purpose is to attract buyers to those sellers' auctions -- otherwise no Powerseller logo would exist at all, and it would just be a private program for top sellers. Face it, the Powerseller program gives a seller bragging rights by allowing them to display that logo.

True. That is what they use to entice sellers to pay them a lot of money every month.

I think because many of us are so rules-savvy and have been a part of eBay boards where we've pretty much seen it all, we lose sight of the fact that most eBay buyers have never even been to the boards, and a very high number, I'm sure, haven't waded through the novel-length policies, including the user agreement. A Powerseller logo to those bidders may say "Experience, Trustworthiness, Customer Satisfaction, Approved by eBay" ... even if that is not the stated purpose of the program, which most bidders don't bother to find out.

I think any seller is painfully aware that most buyers, as well as most other sellers, have not waded through the tax code-sized pile of rules eBay has.... and I think most buyers are familiar enough with feedback, at this point, to make their own decisions based on that. If they are not, they get that way pretty fast.

As a seller, I DREAD doing business with people from the eBay boards. They frequently come into the transaction believing that everyone is out to get them, that everything is a scam, and that regardless of the fact that I have 99.98% positive feedback... they know it all... they want everything done the way they read about it on the board... and they attempt to be the boss of the transaction, when all they have to do is pay me and I'll send them the item and they'll be happy with it and if they're not, they can return it for a refund. It's not hard to pick them out... not at all...

[marble]

Likewise, selling $1000 worth of crap doesn't automatically get you in the door, you have to do it for a couple of months in a row, at least, before you get the invitation to join the program.


Three months in a row, actually. Then you get the invitation to join.

The advantage? Well being a Powerseller with 99% or better feedback says you're a consistent seller with a good customer service record. This does help give prospective bidders a bit of confidence, I'd think.

[Cyber Diva]

Here's a few:

link edited. We're not looking to create the next Lee Baltzer, here.

He was pointing directly to some seller we don't even know, nor ever heard about, one that doesn't post on these boards. His reasons are unclear, but I perceived it as skewering that seller.

Bravo Ross! Very impressive edit. Shame on bliss! :sm1132: It's just another online lynch mob in the making! :2slampan:

[agentorange]

After the war ended, the Egyptian government and its newspapers continued to make claims of collusion between Israel, the United Kingdom and the United States. These included a series of weekly articles in Al-Ahram, simulaneously broadcast on Radio Cairo, by Muhammad Heikal in Al-Ahram. Heikal attempted to uncover the "secrets" of the war. He presented a blend of facts, documents, and interpretations. Heikal's conclusion was clear-cut: there was a secret U.S.-Israeli collusion against Syria and Egypt.



Both London and Washington issued strenuous denials of these claims. Her Majesty's Government are shocked by reports emanating from the Middle East … that planes from a British aircraft carrier have been involved in the fighting. This is a malicious fabrication. There is not a grain of truth in it. It is the policy of Her Majesty's Government to avoid taking sides in this conflict and to do everything they can to bring about a cease-fire as soon as possible.



Nonetheless, these claims, that the Arabs were fighting the Americans and British rather than Israel alone, took hold in the Arab world. As reported by the British Representative in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, a country at odds with Egypt as a result of the Yemen war: President Abdel Nasser's allegation … is firmly believed by almost the whole Arab population here who listen to the radio or read the press … Our broadcast denials are little heard and just not believed. The denials we have issued to the broadcasting service and press have not been published. Even highly educated persons basically friendly to us seem convinced that the allegations are true. Senior foreign ministry officials who received my formal written and oral denials profess to believe them but nevertheless appear skeptical. I consider that this allegation has seriously damaged our reputation in the Arab world more than anything else and has caused a wave of suspicion or feeling against us which will persist in some underlying form for the foreseeable future … Further denials or attempts at local publicity by us will not dispel this belief and may now only exacerbate local feeling since the Arabs are understandably sensitive to their defeat with a sense of humiliation and resent self-justification by us who in their eyes helped their enemy to bring this about.

[rossshow]

Six oh five, huh? Interesting.

[toke]

What do you believe is the purpose of the PowerSeller program?

An artificial goal...to keep sellers listing and listing and listing, in order to keep that pretty 'Power'Seller logo and keep those eBay fees right on coming to Meg. Oooo...power...who doesn't want some of that? And right there in print, too. ;)

A carrot.

[microbes]

A carrot.

That sums it up nicely.