ETHICAL gets SLAPPED? Tool shut down?

[rossshow]

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?p=279273#post279273

[tekobari]

Damn link doesn't work for me.

[kim]

works for me...

instead new tool - "sell it now" - if someone bids - ends auction early...!?

- rofl...

[thentavius]

Was the tool completely dismantled? Or the link just severed?

[packyrat]

Kind of amazing how quick they were able to stick the evidence in a closet and shut the door, but yet haven't seemed to have been able to get all the profiles of the people that are no longer involved in the day~to~day ops OFF the site.

Wonder what the PeSA board is saying about all of this???

[sadie999]

and shit the door

Great typo! :1rotfl2:

Peace,
Sadie

You changed it! Ross, you have got to get rid of edit! :1neko2:

[packyrat]

:1spar2: Thanks Sadie! Thought I caught it quick enuf. :irollers2

See if *I* ever offer to be in a 3 way with you and Miv again!

[sadie999]

:1rotflmao

[rossshow]

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?p=279365#post279365

Ongoing

[thentavius]

Would be interesting to know what the PeSa folks are saying about it. Not that I'm allowed over there, or anything, of course. I'm not elite enough. :1rotfl2:

Still haven't heard word if the tool itself has been taken down or stopped, or if the link on the homepage is the only thing that got nuked.

Anyone know?

[Surreal]

I'm guessing that since it was the big money maker that it is still up and running.

There is nothing wrong or illegal/prohibited about the tool. As has been said many times, the tool was thoroughly investigated and approved by eBay. It's not going anywhere.

It is primarily used by PESA members. I don't think eBay is going to chance pissing them all off. Especially when the big "O" has been actively courting PESA members.

[marble]

I've used the sell-through tool, and I liked it. Although I'm a Powerseller I'm not high-volume, so for me the tool was simply a nice perq. What I liked best was that I could list 20 auctions and have them all close at different times during the week, so shipping was spaced out nicely.

Just my two centavos in all this. :1guitarpl

[SneakyDave]

(schtichhh)... That'll be 3 LARGE, FRESH, FRIES, and nothing else!

[marble]

No, not "nothing else." Include a ton of extra salt and be sure to double bag it. :1jammie:

[10x]

Marble have you used end auction when gets a bid thingy; at ethical??

Like to here more about that one!

[mrpotatoheadd]

Still haven't heard word if the tool itself has been taken down or stopped, or if the link on the homepage is the only thing that got nuked.This link?

http://www.ethicaltools.com/Tools/Info/EST

[10x]

I like this link

http://www.ethicaltools.com/Tools

"Category Rotator"
"What it does:
The Category Rotator changes the main category of your item for sale on a predetermined time cycle (from 6 hours to 2 days). After the timeframe you chose has elapsed, your item is moved into the next category you decided to display it in."

ROTFLMAo here we got more search manipulation.


"Thank You Tool"

Nothing like a spam tool for your customers.

"Item Rating System"

Now for ethical this is one hell of a tool to capture marketing. Dont see much use for the individual.

"Price Dropper"

Interesting tool for multipe listed items, and a good market stratagy.

"Sell It Now"

Reserve fee bypass tool. Again fee avodiance tool.


Got to love this one:

http://www.ethicaltools.com/About/News/PR/04002

""We're really excited about what's taken place over the last few months, not just here at Ethical, but in the person-to-person e-commerce space. People are working together on an unprecedented level," said Scott Samuel, Chairman and CEO of Ethical Technologies.

"Our debut offering features a sell-through tool designed to increase sales while scaling one's business.

Ethical's initial e-commerce management solution also includes tools designed to streamline and monitor online auction activity."


They may have a problem with that sell-through tool. LOL

[rossshow]

MOre at OTWA

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?p=279396#post279396

[thentavius]

marble, I'm sure it is a nice "perq" for those lucky perqs who get to use it.

[marble]

Testing the tools on our auctions was sort of required of us. By using the Sell-Through tool, I helped them test it.

The other tool I tested that I wasn't crazy about was that rating thing, which was plopped onto my account without my knowing about it (at first). They clicked in ratings to check for data return and sometimes gave me low ratings. I got over it. :1jammie:

No, I didn't use the end-it-with-a-bid tool.

[Jasmine]

Cat Rot was a pretty good tool too, but only for certain items. Saved the fee on listing on more than one catagory. Sell thru was great too, but only for certain items. Easy to control, set the max number of days to 7, and then list the items you wanted to be affected by the tool at one day. Those auctions already listed for a 7 day duration would not be affected, because they were already at the maximum number set.

[rossshow]

Ongoing at FAS


http://www.freeauctionscripts.com/community/ecommerce5984.html

[rossshow]

Thanks Toy, for the links:

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?t=32385

[rossshow]

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?p=279921#post279921

[packyrat]

It's finally been picked up over at Vendio now too.

So far, it doesn't seem like they are impressed.

http://www.vendio.com/mesg/read.html?num=2&thread=615852

[Emily]

Ken, I just wanted to say I've been impressed with your posts in the OTWA thread. I get what you are saying and agree 100%.

[packyrat]

Thanks for that Emily.

I am starting to get the impression that there is some serious spinning and doubletalk happening tho.....much the same as when the idea of "tiered listing fees" was a hot topic.

The tool so obviously exists solely to be able to bend the rules to fit the ability to manipulate the positioning of items by ONLY a very limited number of sellers and I am getting real sick of hearing 'maybe so, but it's OK because.....'

It *IS* "gaming the system" no matter how many ways you try to justify it.

[thentavius]

I have to agree with Emily. What you said is basically what I sense about the whole thing.

[thentavius]

Let me revise that (no edit button?)--I meant for that "you" to stand for Ken.

[biggbill]

"tiered listing fees" :1chirol_r

[Emily]

Oh, you are here, Bill. I was just about to quote you. From the thread at FAS we finally have a price!

I have sold it from 50 to 2000 dollars a month. The 2000 was for 4 accounts. The 50 was small beta testers that wanted to keep using it.

[BWS]

:1raygun1: :D

I can't say more but :)

[biggbill]

"I am starting to get the impression that there is some serious spinning and doubletalk happening tho.....much the same as when the idea of "tiered listing fees" was a hot topic."

Ken

If your talking about me, bring it on brother.

Lets not BBspeak.....

[packyrat]

I am not interested in playing that game Bill.

Let's just let it go and stay friends....OK?

[biggbill]

As always!

[marble]

Darn and I had this all ready:

:1JerryJer

[BWS]

I have a question...what happens to the current users of this tool if its deemed not "legal" by eBay?

[biggbill]

another class action?

[SneakyDave]

welcome back from vaca bill!

The Wet Bird Doesn't Fly At Night!

[BWS]

lol...here I am with yet another question...when you said class action suit...against who? ebay?

[biggbill]

And the Donkey drug it behind him...

[biggbill]

Congrats on the Mikey Getting Married Scoop.

Never thought ShitBird would let that happen....Thought it would have to be an "Emily"

[Toy Ranch]

Congrats on the Mikey Getting Married Scoop.

Never thought ShitBird would let that happen....Thought it would have to be an "Emily"

So he did get married? Good for Mikey. Hope Scotty doesn't break that one up too.

[evilanggellene]

Congrats on the Mikey Getting Married Scoop.

Never thought ShitBird would let that happen....

Maybe she passed the French Fry Fetchin' test?

[sibs ling]

From SneakyDave's site:

Mike Rudi and his "Bunny" getting married?


Wednesday, 03 August 2005

That's the latest rumor.

Mikey's auctions (aka Things Scott Samuel Gives Mikey to Sell when Scott Doesn't Pay The Bills)
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&since=30&userid=p090&include=0&rows=200&sort=3&completed=1

Mikey's About Me page:
http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=p090

Bunnie's "Hutch", she uses Ethical Tools too, poor girl:
http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=*sweet*bunnie*


If it's true AND if it's Bunnie (aka Fantastic "ebay Barbie" Auction Writer), I truly wish them both the best of everything.

[rossshow]

Sibs? Someone is saying it may have been some kind of leak?

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?p=280473#post280473

Why? To take the heat off the tool deal? Hmmmmmm.

[marble]

I have serious doubts that it's true.

[biggbill]

I know a few things that are true.....


Scott knows art......


http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/42/41898/RossArtFan.jpg


And only one of these Guys are still Working....Until School starts.

http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/42/41898/coders1.jpg

[biggbill]

Truths...It's Time.


This was actually made by Scott with someones help. As if he could do anything himself.



"Barb and Ed".......He found that very funny for some reason.

http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/42/41898/koolaidgreen.jpg



The Office Kitchen...while Nancy was Involved:

http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/42/41898/foodoffice.jpg

http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/42/41898/foodoffice1.jpg

http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/42/41898/foodoffice2.jpg

Yummy!

[Emily]

Thought it would have to be an "Emily"

:1madrealm :1madrealm :1madrealm

Don't even try to explain what that is supposed to mean. Seriously, don't.

[biggbill]

not what you think. It would help you understand maybe...pm me. I can tell you why he picked you.

bill

[Emily]

:rolleyes: If you really want to go there, Bill, do it here on the board. I have nothing to hide. All these guys have heard my side. I doubt anything you have to say will mean much to me, but it might give Ross some more hits at least.

:1JerryJer

[marble]

There was another Emily in the scenario. As far as I know, the Emily in question has never been on the OAI boards.

As I heard it, she was romantically involved with Papa Smurf's "son" and the big smurf made her life a living hell.

[Toy Ranch]

She was his wife. Remember when they got married? They have a son named A********

[marble]

I have to admit that when I hear the name "Emily" in relation to the whole Papa Smurf scenario, she's definitely the one who comes to mind.

[Toy Ranch]

Yes Nancy, however Bill just said:

not what you think. It would help you understand maybe...pm me. I can tell you why he picked you.

bill

[marble]

Oh, I understand how the confusion may have taken place, but the first sentence of Bill's post the significant one, IMO.

As for the last sentence of Bill's post, some of us know how much the name "Emily" sets him off because of woman of that name further in his past.

Ever see a smurf go from blue to dark purple?

:1headspin <-- that's not a smurf, but close enough.

[Toy Ranch]

I heard tell of a woman (or girl, I suppose) WAY back in Smurf's past. He actually had a girlfriend once. Not sure if anyone has the actual story on that. Was she also an "Emily"?

[Emily]

Oh - that's right. last year someone did mention there had been another Emily, but I never heard any details about her at all.

But it was Bill's "why he picked you" statement that I would prefer to have out here (in front of TRB's BS-o-meeter) instead of in PM. Because as far as I knew, I was never picked or wanted for anything at all except ego stroking. I sure didn't know there was a company being built and how many of you were in on it. No, I had been BSed into thinking I belonged when all along I couldn't have been farther outside - and the BS didn't come from just one person either... :1caca:

[marble]

If that's true, Bobby, I never heard anything about it.

I must add that I don't think Emily and Smurf's son were actually married. I could be wrong, though. I certainly don't remember them "getting" married or if any nuptuals made public.

[sadie999]

I'm Emily the eighth I am
Emily the eighth I am, I am
I got married to the fellow next door
He's been married seven times before
And every one was an Emily (Emily)
He wouldn't have an Amy or an Anne (no Anne)
I'm his eighth old girl, I'm Emily
Emily the eighth I am

Second verse same as the first
I'm Emily the eighth I am
Emily the eighth I am, I am
I got married to the fellow next door
He's been married seven times before
And every one was an Emily (Emily)
He wouldn't have an Amy or an Anne (no Anne)
I'm his eighth old girl, I'm Emily
Emily the eighth I am

E-M-I-L-Y
Emily (Emily)
Emily (Emily)
Emily the eighth I am, I am
Emily the eighth I am
Yeah!

http://server1.inlandnet.com/~jilittle/biggrin.gif

[marble]

(Oh bloody hell, who stole the damn Edit button.) :p

[marble]

I'm Emily the eighth I am


Now that's funny.

[Toy Ranch]

I thought there was a big "congrats" thread about it on AE. I dunno...

[marble]

On AE? If memory serves, it would have been over well before AE got started.

[biggbill]

"Because as far as I knew, I was never picked or wanted for anything at all except ego stroking. I sure didn't know there was a company being built and how many of you were in on it."





:1clap: :1rotfl2:

[Emily]

Fuck you, Bill. :1finger1:

Scott told me in email, not two weeks before his first teaser thread on AE that he was starting a company. He said he and Mike were standing in line somewhere in February of 2004 and came up with a great idea. As if the whole thing started with just the two of them at that moment and not over a year before. At the time I was excited that he let me in on this little secret a full two weeks before everyone else at AE. Oh yeah - you and the rest of 'em can all be proud of how well you keep secrets.

As far as I'm concerned you are every bit the slimeball Scott is, so I really don't give a hoot if you believe me or not.

[biggbill]

"Fuck you, Bill. "

Really Classy Emily.

"cott told me in email, not two weeks before his first teaser thread on AE that he was starting a company. "

So You did know then.


"He
said he and Mike were standing in line somewhere in February of 2004 and came up with a great idea. As if the whole thing started with just the two of them at that moment and not over a year before."

That was about a ball game and a stupid Clock. Story#121



"At
the time I was excited that he let me in on this little secret a full two weeks before everyone else at AE."

Yes. I have those emails. He calls Them "Buffers" "We had a lot of Buffers".


"Oh yeah - you and the rest of 'em can all be proud of how well you keep secrets."

Well.....Um....I'm sorry if he's taking that out on you now.

"As far as I'm concerned you are every bit the slimeball Scott is, so I really don't give a hoot if you believe me or not.

I believe what I read. All those emails.

I do believe you. I just
had to laugh when I saw the Halo.

[marble]

There was an NDA issue that would have kept people from talking about the company.

[toke]

Really Classy Emily.
I can't believe you said that, you amazing, oversized Scott- kissing ass. I DID feel it, and it was repulsive.

[sadie999]

On some demented 1950s planet only men can say, "Fuck you." Get back in that kitchen and rattle those pots and pans. :1kool-aid

Right on, Emily. I remember when you didn't often stand up for yourself. If you use a couple of "Fuck you"s to get your point across, it's just fucking fine. And fuck anyone who doesn't fucking like it. :)

Peace,
Sadie

[snowyegret]

Yesh, an NDA. We see what that's worth now, but hey, it's a good excuse for leaving Emily hanging out to dry then.

[Meya]

You know Bill, I like you. You've done some really nice things for me and my family. But, you are one of the last people who has any room to chastise anyone else for not being classy. You've posted some of the least classy posts I've ever seen on a message board during the past months. You can blame scott or papers you've signed until the cows come home, but the words were still yours.

If you've got something to say, then just say it in plain words for once. Emily has been very open here about her "involvement". She's never used code words or broken sentences or cryptic crap to talk about any of it.

[marble]

Yesh, an NDA. We see what that's worth now, but hey, it's a good excuse for leaving Emily hanging out to dry then.

We're not talking about now. We're talking about February 2004 and this Emily (as opposed to the other Emily) berating people for not telling her that a company was forming. The people whom she seems to have expected to tell her about it would have signed NDA agreements and weren't supposed to be talking about it.

Whether these same people choose to uphold the NDAs now isn't the issue.

If your post is directed at me personally, I don't know Emily except for reading her posts on the boards, so I have no idea why I'd be expected to single her out and tell her about the company.

[TurtleTrax]

Really Classy Emily.Pardon me one second...

:1jester:
:1jester:
:1jester:

This coming from the same guy who used a naked man taking a dump as his avatar? Too freakin' funny! Emily, you DO realize you were posting to the Mr. Emily Post of the internet, right?

[snowyegret]

Anyone who had read Emily's posts on OTWA would know she had a great need for acceptance and belonging to a group, and that was used in what looks to be a nasty way by the so called Ethical group.

There was an NDA issue that would have kept people from talking about the company.

You guys get screwed and you're blathering in gibberish all over the boards, NDA or no. But before you get screwed, it's an excuse to hang somebody out there.

You're the one using the NDA as an excuse. The "core group" knew, and let some people get hurt. That, whatever you wish to call it, isn't ethical.

[toke]

Anyone who had read Emily's posts on OTWA would know she had a great need for acceptance and belonging to a group, and that was used in what looks to be a nasty way by the so called Ethical group.



You guys get screwed and you're blathering in gibberish all over the boards, NDA or no. But before you get screwed, it's an excuse to hang somebody out there.

You're the one using the NDA as an excuse. The "core group" knew, and let some people get hurt. That, whatever you wish to call it, isn't ethical.

The meaning of "ethical" is obviously open to interpretation by this group, Snowy. Let's try honorable. Or even...dare I say it?...decent and kind.

[marble]

The "core group" knew, and let some people get hurt.

Well, I certainly have no argument with that.

[snowyegret]

Toke, even when I plug those words in, it doesn't add up, unless I've been transported to an Orwellian world in the Dark Universe

Feh.

[packyrat]

"core group"

Now there is an interesting term that needs defined.

I am pretty sure that there are at least 12 of us that were TOLD and continually LED to believe we were "the core group"....now what it actually became.......

[Jasmine]

Ya know, all that crap is in the past now. There is no sense going back a year and a half and berating anyone about anything that happened with this company. We all were duped, drawn into a delusional system by a charismatic psycho, and we all have that in common. We believed!!!!

At least none of us died drinking kool-aid. Let's keep to the topic on hand, trashing the psycho and not each other. There is no point in trying to find out who fucked over who in the past, we were all fucked over by the same guy.

Emily, I've never said this on the boards before, but I fully understand how you were taken in by Mr Psycho. He used the same tactics on me, I felt it, and I believed. I believed I was special, he saw my special qualities, and I could be a part of this thing that was happening.

However, I am much older and much more experienced and saw through it when I was there. Scott pretty much igored me once I was there. He already had me so he didn't need to make me feel special anymore. He also told me I reminded him of his mother (ewwwwwwwww!!!!!) and so I was never taken seriously again after that. (Actually, I more think that was an excuse, when he saw how smart I was and how I saw through a lot of the bullshit, he was afraid of me.) I would have gotten out sooner but I was penniless and trapped, just how he likes it!

Be thankful you never had more of a role in this company. Be thankful you didn't leave your life and move half way across the country to be duped by Mr Psycho.

I have moved on, have a job that I love, and that actually pays me! I am trying to put all the bad stuff behind me. But I won't forget. And if I can sue his ass for anything, I will! Even if I get nothing because he moved his assets or something like that, he will still have to pay the lawyers, and probably have sleepless nights over it. If that's the best I can do, then so be it.

Trash the problem, not each other. We were all duped!

[Meya]

Nicely said Marie.

[toke]

If you'd like it to stop, then you'd best tell Biggbill to quit taking his simple-minded shots, Jasmine.

[mrpotatoheadd]

NDAs, NDAs, NDAs...

"Well, good golly, I'd just loved to have told you all that I was involved with Ethical while I was pimping for them on the message boards, but there was that NDA, after all..."

Of course, there was money to be made, so it's all good. Yeah- I feel it.

[Jasmine]

Actually, I wasn't in it for the money. I was in it for the community. But Scott trashed the community as well. After spending all day together in that hell hole, none of us really wanted to see each other at night! He kept us penniless and drained. He wanted us to spam the boards. He wanted us to do many unethical things. After a full day of that, who wants to hang out and talk about it!!! We all needed to escape from it!!!

[biggbill]

Emily...

I Do owe you an apology. I am sorry for mocking you. I can't make up for things that I have done and said. I can change that.

I am sorry.

[DareMe]

Bill, thanks for apologizing. I knew you would.

Marie's post was right on. Emily's not the enemy, Bill's not the enemy. We need to stay focused.

In some ways Emily, you were hurt more than any of us. The betrayal of someone you thought was at the very least a trusted friend is unbearably painful. We all learned what he was like because we were here and saw what was going on, but you couldn't do that. If it helps at all, what happened with you really opened my eyes and I swore I wouldn't get drawn in emotionally. I didn't. What that bastard did to you is unforgiveable and I swear he will pay.

I remember something you posted awhile back....it sounded to me like you were talking with someone who had signed an NDA, but was saying, "I know something, but I can't tell you...." That kind of game is wrong, too.

Monika

[evilanggellene]

This thread is great!

I see:

Emily has grown some man-balls :1spar:

And

Smurf Code Talk!

[kailin]

In 2003, up to the time of the 2nd big party, the discussions that I was a participant in were about how to create something useful for the community. It seemed a worthy undertaking to me -- create a new company based on the community. We were convinced that Scott wanted this. Based on his explanation of why he had "sold" the community.

Then there was a long time period -- Scott's grandmother died, Scott's dog died.

At some point, the "core" was defined as six people. That's all been reported here. I'm not going to lay out the time line here -- doing that for myself only.

There was a lot of jostling about who was "in" and who was not "in." "Core" was a word that only came up in the context of the legal formation of the company, sometime in 2004, I think.

NDAs were supposed to be about protecting the tools. The actual NDA which was presented, a day or two before the party so there was no time to question it, included a "non disparagement" clause which was a holdover from a previous business arrangement, I believe. Probably a direct copy.

In any case, like Marie, I was never a "core" member of the corporation. That was reserved for people who had a lot to contribute, financially, or in terms of a dedicated following, e.g. Marjie. And that group was created much later than October, 2003.

In some ways, I do agree with Marie about moving on. I consider myself fortunate that I have some 8 months advance experience on that front, compared to the "disgruntled" group.

Emily -- you were disparaged. You were not the first, nor the last to be so treated. What was the most distressing to me, though, was that the characteristics of the "leader" became adopted by others. And when I discovered that I myself was in such a state of fear that I was also "morphing", I knew it was time to make some changes. The changes were not what I would have chosen, but, as I often am reminded, I have very strong angels.

When I was in the process of my divorce from an abusive husband, I'll never forget that my lawyer made the point that "for every abuser there is an abusee" I'd say that's not true in the case of children. But in the case of adult relationships, we have choices. And sometimes we have to look at why we made choices that ended up hurting us.

Even when we DO have a gun to our heads, we can still decide how we will respond. Was there a gun to anyone's head in this situation?

Each person will have to answer that for herself or himself. And perhaps the role of the community is to insist that we do.

[rossshow]

Cool, Kailin. A detailed post. I like that

[larruone]

Kailin, that has to be one of the most clearly written and open post
I have read in this tragedy. Thank you! :) :)

Not in a terribly disparaging way, I have to say that it is sounding
more and more like a classic cult story, with a few twists.

The mind games, separation from family, iron fist loving rule of ?Smurf?,
the "keep everyone penniless", the paranoia, the living arrangements,
the "community"....

All of this reads like points from "How to Be a Successful Cult Leader"!

Which has finally allowed some rays of understanding to penetrate my
foggy brain.

I might not approve of some of the tactics, but I think I am pretty much
on the bandwagon now. Someone stinks in Chicago, and deserves what he
gets.

[Meya]

Kailin, your post also helped to clear the fog for me. I had a small understanding of the situation, but you really clarified it. I admire not only your gift of using words, but your willingness to be so transparent.

May each one of you "move on" and be well.

[Emily]

I really appreciate the support and the direction this thread took after I logged off last night. And Bill, I accept your apology.

Ironically, the part of Bill's post that made me step back was not the "classy" comment, but the one at the end about my "halo".

That is the one that hurt because it is totally untrue. Kailin was absolutely right in her post: "Even when we DO have a gun to our heads, we can still decide how we will respond. Was there a gun to anyone's head in this situation?"

I fully admit I wrote the first email. Scott posted about one tragedy after another. He cast out the line and I, along with many others took the bait. I know now I didn't fit the profile and he would have undoubtedly thrown me back in the water if I hadn't asked to stay. That's why when Bill said he could tell me why I was 'picked' my BS meter went off.

Oh yeah, I looked up to Scott like a mentor, a teacher, a priest. And when he told me over and over how I was special, different from the rest of the congregation, I ate it up. I know all that and, as I've said on the boards many times, forgiving myself is still too hard to do. I was getting there, seeing how many others were duped far worse than I. With you ex-Ethical employees posting the inside story, it was easier to let a little of the blame I had burdened myself with fall off my shoulders.

That is why the halo comment is so wrong. Maybe I am acting that way online. I don't know. Everyone reads my words from a different perspective. So even if I posted all those emails there will be some that don't get what I meant simply because they aren't me (Bill, I highly doubt you of all people could read them from a naive country-girl viewpoint lol). But know, way deep inside, self loathing and guilt continue to be my biggest burdens.

I don't want to feel like a victim, though. I want to be at a place where the halo comment IS warranted. When that day comes, I'll wear the label proudly!

[biggbill]

How I could have looked at any of that as anyone's fault I'll never understand.

I also have to blame myself. And I do.

We will all get past this.

Thanks Emily.

[Toy Ranch]

Then there was a long time period -- Scott's grandmother died, Scott's dog died.


Which reminds me...

When I posted this:

http://www.auctionethics.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=19;t=005308;p=11


quote: Originally posted by Mike Rudi:
Doofy,

I was not commenting on the thread at all in itself.. I just thought it was troubling to me that this thread was garnering attention away from a helpless little life that was struggling against death.

I find the thread is very interesting. Just in that context of where I was, and had returned from... Please, Mike... really... Scott CHOSE to read this thread and discuss it with you, or you CHOSE to tell Scott about this thread and discuss it with him. Either way, don't blame the thread for taking time away from Scott's dog.

I know that life often hands us a lot to deal with... and sometimes that can play out over years, but as long as I have known Scott, his dog, his mother, his father, his grandmother, someone else's dog, or someone in his family or circle has been sick or dying and there has been a crisis afoot every few weeks or so. I'm surprised that Scott hasn't succumbed to something himself out of the sheer volume of online hugs alone.

And... I know that a sick pet is a traumatic time in anyone's life, and I don't mean to belittle the situation a bit. That said, if you couch the tone and discussion of every thread on your board in terms of a crisis of health or such in Scott's life, you will quickly find that NO discussion is meritous of Scott's time or consideration. In fact, even lacking a crisis of proportion I am wondering why I found it worthy of mine.

Best of luck to you and your board.

Adios (for now)

What exactly did Scott say to everyone that sent them into a full-scale tizzy?

[Surreal]

Emily my friend, if anyone deserves a halo, it is you. That you can be so sweet after all of the nonsense you've been through amazes me.

It will get better with time.

Jeff

[rossshow]

ongoing


http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?p=281038#post281038

[larruone]

For what it's worth, I got an OK on the auction revision method from
an ebay CS rep.

He even said he thought it was a great idea....

[Toy Ranch]

As reported by Irene at OTWA:

http://auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y05/m08/i09/s02 (http://auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y05/m08/i09/s02)

eBay:

eBay spokesperson Hani Durzy...

"We don't want this tool to be out there,"
...

He said eBay is in discussions with Ethical and would be revising the API usage policies that developers are required to follow.

French Fried:

When contacted last Thursday, Ethical Technologies founder Scott Samuel said he could not comment on the record until his legal counsel returned to the office on Monday. Samuel was still unable to go on the record by presstime by end-of-day Monday, but said, "We want to cooperate with eBay in every way. Together, we are ecommerce."

[biggbill]

Reputation=Shot

[packyrat]

:1th_drum: :1clap4: :1chirol_c

Chalk one up in the little guy column for a change! A sliver of faith in eBay has been restored this morning.

:1tombston Manipulation Tool.

[Julesy]

We all were duped

I didn't read anything after this and don't have to.

You people were NOT duped. YOUR GREED is what led you down that path. Quit fucking blaming it on stupidity, naivete or Scott Samuels. You and your greed are responsible for the mess of shit you are in and the mess of shit that resulted.

Stop trying to snow people with this lame excuse. Sheesh! NOBODY EFFIN' BELIEVES IT.

[Jasmine]

"Together, we are ecommerce."

Hmmm...

Haven't I heard that before? Nice phrase, but becoming overused.

ecommerce with children????? Hmmmm...

[packyrat]

Wouldn't ya LOVE to be a fly on the phone lines of some PeSA members right about now??? :D

[Julesy]

I think Kailin's posts are both the most enlightening and disturbing.

What is "morphing?" I can make assumptions, and then some (given the somewhat hostile exchange in this thread between Ken and Bill), but would love to hear more from the source.

[biggbill]

"We want to cooperate with eBay in every way."

In fact we will be bringing thousands of underage users to ebay with their parents stolen credit cards. One they buy our runehq tips books, we will get our afffiliate Money. The sellers should not care that they will never receive any business from these new ebay users and Wall Street will love the user boost.



Together, we are ecommerce." Like it, or don't.

There are a lot of big customers that need to get to revising auctions......Tick Tock.

[Julesy]

It's funny, Bill. Until you had your ass handed to you on a platter, along with the rest of your cohorts, you seemed to have NO problem with the way Scott or his "assmonkies" conducted themselves. 'Twas all about the $$.

[biggbill]

I get it! Yeah, Funny!
:1rotfl2:

[Jasmine]

Julesy, we just could not talk about it in public at the time. We were "loyal". Too bad He Who Must Be Obeyed was not loyal to us in return. It may look like we jumped on the bandwagon late in the game, but, believe me, we read and privately agreed with much that was posted on these boards. We are not the enemy.

Here's a thought for you. Firstly, I am not normally a paranoid person but I believe there is some kind of spyware on my computer. I lived in a house that the IT guy also lived in and who is still with the company. I believe it is undetectible through any means I have at my disposal. It is also possible this house is bugged, although I have not come across any equipment.

As soon as I can, I will get a new computer that cannot be tainted. I am also moving from this house in case the problem is on the line and not in my computer.

How would you like to have to live with stuff like this?

[rockinwriter]

Okay, so even the tools were a dupe, and ebay does not even approve of them. What a hoot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HOT DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!Wonder whose brilliant idea that was..........NOW ALL OF YOU DO NOT TAKE CREDIT ALL AT ONCE FOR THIS......I know it wasn't the little freaks idea, as he just used what he had at his disposal..........You touted this as a fantastic tool; yet you never even got approval to use it. ARE YOU FOLKS NUTS????????????Do not answer that question.

[Julesy]

So you all privately agreed that you were dealing with a nutcase, and you were nearing financial ruin and starving, yet you stayed on, for a lengthy time because.........why? Loyalty? My ass. It was all about the $$. You folks had seen Scott Samuels strike gold once and were counting on a big payday again.

Again, I would like to hear more from Kailin. Sounds like she wasn't drinking the same kool-aid as the rest of you. Maybe Ken, too.

[mrpotatoheadd]

It may look like we jumped on the bandwagon late in the game, but, believe me, we read and privately agreed with much that was posted on these boards.That sounds an awful lot like a "have your cake and eat it, too" attitude.

[Emily]

This story isn't over - I expect there will be many "ripples in the water". I wish I knew what the PESA crowd was saying. I can't celebrate even though I didn't like the tool, because I'm sure this will hurt people financially and otherwise. It's mind boggling to see how one person can affect the lives of so many others...

Anyhow, I'm going to miss Ebay Radio today. Do you think there will be any mention of this on the "latest news" segment? Maybe someone will phone Griff about it? Probably not...

http://www.wsradio.com/ebayradio
11 am pacific = 2 pm eastern

[boardbimbo]

"t's funny, Bill. Until you had your ass handed to you on a platter, along with the rest of your cohorts, you seemed to have NO problem with the way Scott or his "assmonkies" conducted themselves. 'Twas all about the $$."

My problem has been exactly with the way Scott treated people. Lying to them. about the funding he had. Working them without pay. Forcing them to work in degrading conditions, etc. Stories of his his alleged drug abuse (which I heard from more than one). I was never part of the group, didn't want to be, and flat out said so. I had no intention of leaving my life here.

But when I heard the same story, over and over and over--where there is that much smoke, it isn't a barbeque.

People get conned because a con preys upon a person's vulnerability--whether it is loneliness, financial need, whatever. To point the finger and say it was because they were greedy (and, by implication, guilty of some sin and deserving of whatever pickle they found themselves in) is heartless.

Kenlee didn't need to have what happened to him. Neither did Lou. Neither did Jasmine, Kailin, Marble, Surreal, and all the others. No one deserved to work for nothing. No one deserved to sleep on their office floor, get evicted because Ethical didn't pay the rent.

[rockinwriter]

Ha Ha HEE HAW HA HA HA :1liar2:

THIS STORY NEEDS TO GO IN RIPLEY'S BELIEVE IT OR NOT

HOPE PESA IS HAVING FUN RIGHT NOW! :1poison1:

I KNOW THE LITTLE FREAK IS EATING HIS FRENCH FRIES AND YELLING AT HIS LITTLE GROUP ...........

WHAT A HOOT...............I AM LAUGHING MY ASS OFF

[rockinwriter]

Now Who Is Going To Step Up And Tell Us Who Thought Up The Tool Ebay Does Not Allow. Also, Who Felt It Not Necessary To Get Ebay's Approval To Use It. Even Your Tools You Developed Were A Way Of Beating The System......

[Julesy]

Forcing them to work in degrading conditions, etc.

Forced?? How so? This wasn't slavery or indentured servitude. These people went willingly, happily, and SMUGLY off to work with Scott Samuels. Nobody forced them. And even after realizing that things weren't on the up and up, they STAYED. How exactly were they conned?

Sorry, try all you might to martyr these folks, but most of us know better.

[rockinwriter]

IT WAS A CON GAME FROM THE BEGINNING.......What about filling an office up and having the phones ringing off the wall to make investors think you all were really wheeling and dealing....TRYING TO GET SOME MONEY , MAKING YOUR COMPANY OUT TO BE SOMETHING IT WASN'T ......EVERYTHING WAS BUILT ON LIES LIES AND MORE LIES .I know some of you were not there when all that was taking place in the beginning, but I know some who were there. YOUR CON BACKFIRED AND YOU WERE TAKEN TO THE CLEANERS BY THE MASTER OF ALL CONS. DO NOT ASK FOR SYMPATHY FOR STUPIDITY

[sibs ling]

DO NOT ASK FOR SYMPATHY FOR STUPIDITY

It doesn't appear that anyone is asking for sympathy.

It *does* appear that the former ET employees had a rough year (2?). This tool is a product of their efforts. Something to be proud of.

Does it push the limits? Yep.
Does it *technically* fall within eBay's rules/guidelines? Yep.
Does it *ethically* fall within eBay's rules/guidelines? It appears that eBay is revisiting this.

Does it do any good to continually "kick at" the former ET employees?
They're already down, so to speak.
What's the benefit of repeatedly kicking them in the head?

[rockinwriter]

Those in the core group from the very beginning knew EXACTLY what was going on. RIGHT FROM THE GET GO....Those of you who came on board later need to ask yourselves this question:WHY DID THOSE IN THE CORE GROUP NOT MAKE ME AWARE OF THE FRENCH FRY EATING FREAK , INSTEAD OF SPEWING THE SAME LINE OF BULL SHIT HE WAS SPEWING....
Those of you who came in later were taken to the cleaners by more than just the freak.

[sadie999]

Does anyone ever wonder if Margaret Mead would have just loved online communities? :2headspin

Peace,
Sadie
http://server1.inlandnet.com/~jilittle/fhvamp143.gif

[rossshow]

MANY new posts at OTWA.

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?p=280618#post280618

Now up to page 38

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?t=32120&page=38&pp=15

[rossshow]

Thread on EBay's Boards

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?messageID=2000223249�

[tekobari]

[QUOTE=sadie999]Does anyone ever wonder if Margaret Mead would have just loved online communities? :2headspin

Peace,
Sadie
:1chirol_r

[KatieP]

One good thing has come of all this: I will never eat French Fries again. :1rotfl2:

[kailin]

Does anyone ever wonder if Margaret Mead would have just loved online communities? :2headspin

Peace,
Sadie
http://server1.inlandnet.com/~jilittle/fhvamp143.gif


Wish I could write music -- would make a great opera.

Wagnerian.

[Toy Ranch]

People get conned because a con preys upon a person's vulnerability--whether it is loneliness, financial need, whatever. To point the finger and say it was because they were greedy (and, by implication, guilty of some sin and deserving of whatever pickle they found themselves in) is heartless.


I agree. Greed is not the only reason people get conned. People get conned most often... maybe always... when they are greedy and/or hopeful. Most often, it's something of a mix of the two... but what is "greed" when your income is sagging and someone contacts you about a new and high-paying job... with lies about financing being in place and such? Is it greedy to want to make a move to better yourself?

Yes, greed played it's part, but so did hope.

It's why so many destitute people use what little money that might come to them gambling or playing the lottery. If you are flat broke, behind on all your bills, not able to feed your family, etc. etc. the very LAST thing you should spend any money on is a lottery ticket, but it's the cheapest price for hope there is.... hope and a dream, all for a buck. It's not all greed.

[marble]

I agree. Greed is not the only reason people get conned. People get conned most often... maybe always... when they are greedy and/or hopeful. Most often, it's something of a mix of the two... but what is "greed" when your income is sagging and someone contacts you about a new and high-paying job... with lies about financing being in place and such? Is it greedy to want to make a move to better yourself?

Yes, greed played it's part, but so did hope.

It's why so many destitute people use what little money that might come to them gambling or playing the lottery. If you are flat broke, behind on all your bills, not able to feed your family, etc. etc. the very LAST thing you should spend any money on is a lottery ticket, but it's the cheapest price for hope there is.... hope and a dream, all for a buck. It's not all greed.


I think this is the most profound thing you've ever posted, Bobby. I know now more than ever that you truly understand. Everything.

[marble]

Ok well maybe not EVERYTHING. :1guitarpl

[Meya]

I wish I had the writing ability to really speak my thoughts.

I've been involved with people who I trusted, in long term working/team type relationshships. I've been a "victim" (I hate that word) of master manipulation and lies, that went on for many years. I have a certain amount of understanding of how this happens. People who have some talents, want to be involved with something "bigger than themselves", and those doing the manipulating are VERY GOOD at what they do. They stroke and they teach and they encourage, all the while feeding into the person's ego, needs, and the desire to "be involved". It's very subtle, and isn't something that happens overnight.

I was not the only one involved with this particular group of people, there were many many who were also "believers". We worked hard at what we believed to be for a good thing, along with those we believed to be "good decent" people. I'm talking a group in numbers over 200, most of whom believed in those "in charge".

Looking back on it now, I see how we were kept "apart" in mental ways, because of privacy issues etc. My experience was not a paid type job...I really hesitate to admit that this was a group at a church we belonged to for many years. Lots of people were hurt in the long run, many who trusted and believed and went to bat for the "liers", once the truth started coming out. It seems absurd that "we" didn't see it at the time. But we truly didn't. We trusted and believed what we were told, from people we looked up to and admired. We were friends...comrades, our families hung out together etc.

Never underestimate the genius that a true psychopath has at their disposal. I still put pieces of the puzzle together, 5 years after the fact, that simply blow my mind. Bits of conversations, little facts, events, from 1989-2000. A long time. I will never completely wrap my brain around it.

Don't take my comments to be against churches themselves. I'm talking about the people that did the damage. My faith in people took a beating, not my Faith. And I did a really crappy job of trying to explain what I mean. In short, I have some empathy and understanding of how and why this type of thing happens.

[evilanggellene]

Hindsight is always 20/20.

I know, in the past, I have gotten involved in some truly moronic things and then when I finally realized I was an idiot I would often sit for days afterwards pondering when I became naive and at what point should I have gotten out.

Like Meya said...looking back you start to realize all the signs were there...you replay old conversations...you put 2 and 2 together and it didn't make 4 back then. You either chose to listen to the universe and get out or you chose to ingore it and continue following.

I think, greed aside, the whole point of this situation should be that Scott used people and he will continue to do so until he is called on the carpet and stopped. I'm really not sure how he manages to do it because he never really impressed me but there is always going to be one, two, six or twelve out there that will believe his bullshit and he will hone in on them and take advantage of their insecurities and need to feel like they are part of something BIG, no matter how delusional it might be.

I'm tired of beating up on the most recent *victims*. I'm not goint to say "I told you so". I'm not even going to feel sorry for them because they don't need that. They all look to me like they know what happened. I just don't want to turn around next year and have a new batch of people here telling us horror stories about dinky apartments, shitty food, steaks, dead dogs and grandmas, ax yielding assholes and 3 large french fries. Two words I definitely don't want to hear...Ethical and Honesty.

[toke]

I'm not sure that "fooled, hornswoggled, and used" all equate to "victim"...but it seems they do in current usage. Those words used to mean "gullible" or perhaps just "real, REAL, hungry."

In any case, I don't see what any of this has to do with ameliorating what was said by these "victims" on AE. But, hey. I come from way back...possibly a seriously outdated code of honor, by today's standards. In fact, I'm positive it is. Outdated, I mean. :1dragon2:

[Meya]

I don't think having a goal and a plan and trusting someone makes you a victim. That's why I put in my post that I hate the word.

It's the aftermath, when the person you trusted turns out to be a fruitloop that you "could" be considered a "victim".

As far as my situation...I don't like the term. I trusted people. I was wrong. Had the signs been larger, I would have realized it sooner. Lots of other people would have also. Were we victims? Perhaps in some sense of the word. Not like a young girl who is grabbed by a creep in a dark alley...my "perp" was right out there in the light of day, pretending to be my friend and an all around great guy.

I think of gullible in terms of someone who believes every sob story that comes around and donates to help. Every person who rings your door bell, and every sad sack on every message board with a tale of woe. Believing everything you read or hear, and not looking into it first. That's gullible.

In my case, the man in question had a great reputation behind him (both men actually, because there were 2 involved). There was no reason to not trust them. From what I've read, Scott also had some reputation behind him. People knew him, and some choose to trust him and his "great idea". The way it was spread around on the boards gave it a life of it's own...but only those who were there can really understand it. I won't have a pity party for them...everyone has to live with their choices. But kicking them over and over doesn't help either. If they are anything like I was, we can full well kick ourselves for not seeing the truth sooner.

Just to clarify, my "situation" had nothing to do with AE, or Scott at all. It's a completely different story, just very similar in many aspects.

[packyrat]

Want to **SEE** how this thing works on eBay?

1-Do a basic ending soonest search on: LITTERMAID MEGA

2-Check who is dominating the first page

3-Change the "sort by" to newly listed

4-Check who is dominating THAT front page

5-Pick pretty much ANY of their auctions and you start finding the "I am an Ethical Seller" tagline and the IRS "tool"....and that it looks like ALL their revised auctions have "listing duration" listed as the reason.

That seller also has a web site that matches up to the sock puppet ID they used to post the "Ethical is great~scott walks on water" post on the eBay board.....though they evidently use at least two IDs on eBay.

I only went thru the listings for the Littermaid Mega item....from the looks of their store, there are plenty of other items that the search manipulation tool would have been helping.

Gee.....wonder why they have nothing but glowing words to post??? Anybody wanna bet their competitors would have a different view??? :1rotflmao

[packyrat]

And if you haven't hit the thread on the eBay store board that Ross posted....check it out:

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?messageID=2000223249�

Starting at post 43 it looks like it is getting interesting!

[rossshow]

Excellent post from ToyRanch:

Gotta quote it:


eBay "pulled the rug" because the tool allowed sellers who used it to gain unfair advantage through the search results.

I'm just going to say this... the eBay that is frequently described on the boards is not the eBay that I have seen.

The eBay that I have seen is comprised of a bunch of mostly young, energetic, and enthusiastic people. Many of them came from other corporate jobs, or business school... and have, even still, an "old corporate" idea of the way things work. eBay is different. Always has been. Long ago, it was much more different than it is today, but the one main paradigm that has always existed on eBay is the "level platform" for all sellers.

Now over the years, that platform has tilted somewhat. Large sellers have several advantages. Sellers of replacable merchandise have advantages over sellers of unique merchandise. And I know that some will say eBay allows keyword spamming by PowerSellers and not by others... (I don't completely agree, but I'll say it so it doesn't become an issue.) This tool tumped the platform over, right into the laps of those who used it, and away from all their competitors. That's why it was shut down. It upset the paradigm.

People will say that eBay doesn't care about the users. I disagree. eBay does care. Sometimes it is like a Pentagon General "caring" about troops who are getting mowed down in the field in order to take a hill... but it's caring just the same. They don't want too many to get mowed down, or they lose.

eBay is not, in general, a malevolent entity. eBay does not sit around and conspire about how to screw everyone over. eBay does not mean to kick us in the teeth after tripping us up... but it works that way sometimes.

And things go wrong. eBay is big and sprawling. It has grown and expanded very, very fast. It's hard to expand the corporate culture as fast as the corporation itself has grown. Employees are encouraged to come up with new and innovative ideas... which fall on us sometimes like a load of bricks. And I think not all of it is so well controlled all the time that eBay is all-knowing and all-seeing.

Of everyone at eBay, I think that the Community Team, at least at the top, understands eBay as well as anyone there. Claire, the head pink, she ROCKS! As did Louise before her. I brought this here, because Claire is here, and she would be able to shoot it up the right pipe to get it where it needed to go.

eBay may well have dealt with this faster with the public glare on it than it would have otherwise. And I'm sure that it could have been lobbed in a few dozen windows without much notice... but fact is that eBay did see it for what it was, and eBay acted on it. I've seen eBay do that many, many times in the past.

It's also a testament to the fact that eBay does read and heed it's boards. Things can still change, when appropriate, through a few posts here and there. Even if something that is against the rules to talk about does happen. http://forums.ebay.com/db2/images/emoticons/happy.gif

[rossshow]

Wow! Looks like the PESA has sniffed that thread out.

Is this a PESA seller?

debnroo (http://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserEmail&requested=debnroo)


toyranch,

I am wondering how you "know" what you know.

I have just gone back to reread your posts, and in particular, the comments about eBay not knowing about this tool do not jibe with the facts.

I spoke with someone at E this morning, and know for a fact they have written documentation about what eBay knew and when. Make no mistake that eBay knew full well about this tool long before it was physically created. I have no idea if they will ever make those documents public.

For the sake of conjecture, lets say that eBay knew about this all along, and E has the proof in writing.

Would this change your mind about the things you have stated in this thread?

Wouldn't eBay be the party at fault here?

And, not for making this knee-jerk reaction, but for allowing a company to proceed with a tool (at considerable expense), participating in events that featured and promoted the tool, certifying the tool (which has one feature and setting), and then letting it operate on the site for many months giving sellers the green light for assuming that a credentialed tool is acceptable, ONLY to slap the creator and users in the face with some "banning of marketing" decision because a minority of the community made noise on the Discussion Boards?

As for the accusations that the tool has been kept from anyone, can any of you complaining about this provide one piece of PROOF that E has denied the use of tool to you or anyone else?

As for the accusations that the tool has manipulated search, can you tell me precisely the difference between the use of a Featured Plus listing, and the use of this tool, including how Featured Plus is acceptable, but this tool is not?

When you are done with that, try explaining the same for eBay Keywords, which not only allows you to buy your way to page 1 of a search, but lets you manipulate how much your competitors PAY, including the use of multiple banners to achieve this goal?

My point is that the complaints I have seen about the E Sell-Through Tool seem to be empty and unsubstantiated when scrutinized by anyone having in-depth knowledge, or factual knowledge about what happened in the process of development and marketing.

I am willing to entertain new thoughts, but what I have seen so far adds up to absolutely nothing. I had heard about the furor a few days ago, but was unable to find threads because they are apparently being deleted by eBay as quickly as they mushroom out of control.

For those who think they have defeated E, I can tell you first hand that the tool still functions for the sellers who use it, and because of the uproar, you will be less likely able to tell who is using it in the future.

Exactly what you wanted, right?

In the end, the tool is not going to be affected at all, in my opinion. It will just be hidden from view to avoid controversy.

The fact is, those that use the tool swear by it. And, if you take away the automation, a room full of low-wage workers overseas could do the same thing manually, perhaps for the same cost or less. And, eBay could not do a thing about it unless they wanted to eliminate all listing revisions, or put caps on the number of revisions allowed by sellers.

Is that what you really want?

I am interested in reading your replies.

A







Johnson-jeremiah,

Boy, you are clever and smart. Sticks and stones and all.

Did you know that the tool is still functioning, even this evening?

Yes, the tool functions as advertised. I endorse it.

Can you tell me how the tool has actually harmed you, or anyone else?





toyranch,

Apparently not. I have access to eBay executives, and believe me, they are hearing from me.

It was people like you on these discussion boards that motivated eBay to take "action", many months after the tool had been in use on eBay.

The "action" so far has been limited to requesting that E discontinue marketing of their tool, and an internal review of policies. I am making sure that they consider the point of view of sellers who use the tool.

So, without further distraction, you had a strong point of view against this tool. Can you articulate exactly what harm has been done to eBay members? Can you provide any proof that the tool has been withheld from anyone?

Do you have any concerns with the tool that you have not already stated?

[packyrat]

Oh yeh Ross!

Google weauction4you (that made the original post) and you get directed to a website that ties to debnroo AND debnroo-outlet IDs.

She is....shall we say....a little LESS than pleased with Bobby.

Looks like this could get REAL interesting as she is calling him out! :1spar:

You taking bets.....and what is the spread & odds??? :1duel:

[packyrat]

:1modhat: LATE BREAKING NEWS!!! :1modhat:

Now she has invaded OTWA too!

as of 10:47pm:Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 45 (26 Members and 19 Lurkers)
packratsattic, gigilee, Mom2KatieDoodles, debnroo, reston_ray, shay, www.imosh.com, biggbill, Surreal57, fluffythewondercat1


Can hardly wait for her first post!!! :1rotfl2:

[mrpotatoheadd]

It still strikes me as odd... if the tool was "eBay Approved", why did eBay continually pull threads on their message boards the other day, which were started in order to discuss it?

[juicy]

It still strikes me as odd...

Me, too. There's more to this story than we're being told.

[evilanggellene]

unplugthejukebox on that ebay thread looks like a master in mangled code talk.

[Emily]

*sigh*

I shouldn't have checked in today. I shouldn't have caught up on the threads at ebay and OTWA.

I can handle that a lot of people don't "get" what is wrong with the tool. I can even handle Jeff's repetitive posts about why the tool soooooooo great (and his post way back in this thread where he called me sweet right after I said the "F" word :1barf1: ) by assuming he is either smoking something extra powerful or he had more than his spleen removed...

But when I read the posts by debnroo/weauction4you/Andy about how great Scott is, it was like seeing someone determined to stay put while a category 5 hurricane is barelling straight toward them. There is no point in telling him what happened to everyone else that stayed put the year before because we didn't listen to the people warning us either.

Damn, I feel so sick in my stomach when I think about the kids. :(

[rossshow]

DebnRoo shows up

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?t=32120&page=40&pp=15

Page 40

Well, you can say whatever you need to right to my face. I am both debnroo and weauction4you (both DBA's).

I know Scott and others at Ethical. Do you?

What exactly would you like to say about them that will change my mind?

I would be glad to call up Scott tomorrow and ask him about any issue you think is important and give him the chance to respond before making a judgment. It is just how I am. I don't mistake gossip and rumors for fact.

Did you know that the Pentagon was really hit with a Tomahawk missle on 9/11? I heard that on the Internet too.

And, yes I am a PESA member and a user of the Sell-Through Tool.

If you can explain how use of this tool has harmed you or anyone else, I am all ears.

In regards to exclusivity, it is a bunch of horse-hooey, to quote a poster on the PS Board. Just a marketing ploy.

Provide for me proof of one person that was denied access to the tool.

Therefore, all you are left with is a complaint about a tool that automates a perfectly legal revision of an eBay auction listing.

And, while claims of this magically making a listing stick on the "ending" page, the actual results are far from that. Take a look at any of the larger categories, and tell me how many pages (at 25 listings per page) you have to dig through pages before you find listings that are 12 hours out.

And, when the auction is extended, it is then put out at 2-days, 12 hours, which is often many pages deep into a category.

And this is the slow time of the year.

I would like to know what the definition of Search Manipulation is, for those of you who have a problem with this tool.

I consider a search by keyword to be a manipulation. So is limiting the price range. So is highest-to lowest, or newest listings. So is a Featured Plus listing. So is eBay Keywords banner advertising. So is just about anything that provides a convenience to a buyer to find the item they are looking for. In most cases the buyer MUST manipulate search results in order to find what they are looking for.

Paid tools for manipulating search are nothing new. eBay provides them, including a Featured listing. eBay Keywords even allows you to manipulate the price another seller is paying for clicks on their banner advertisement.

So, arguments I have seen against the Ethical Sell-Through tool that try to make a point of Search Manipulation, as though it makes the site unpure are hollow. It changes where a listing is found in any time-based search, but has absolutely no effect on a price-based search.

I would be glad to engage anyone who wants to discuss the pros and cons of the tool, and can provide evidence to back their claims.

I am still waiting for anyone to produce evidence that any member has been harmed by this tool - buyer or seller.

I am still waiting for anyone to produce evidence that they were turned away by Ethical for either a trial, or for paid use of the tool.

I am still waiting for anyone to produce a definition of Search Manipulation that manages to avoid catching *legal* tools like eBay Keywords or Featured Plus in that net.

Otherwise, I believe that what some of you are engaged in is an effort to harm others, particularly sellers who are using a tool in good faith that eBay would not approve/certify/bless/condone/allow if it were somehow bad for the community, harmed members, or in any way harmed eBay.

There are sellers who have invested a good deal of time & effort to deploy this tool, and if eBay does what many of you are asking will cost them significantly.

Is that what you intend? To harm the users of this tool?

Well, that is what you are doing, and if it is over attempting to get back at Scott S. over some other issue, this is a pretty poor way of accomplishing your goals.

A


By the way, my wife is not the poster for any of this.

[rossshow]

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?t=32120&page=41&pp=15

Good Morning, debnroo

The tool was cloaked in secrecy from the start. There was no press release. There was no description on the site. Why? Because they knew that if the tool and what it does was promoted, there would be trouble. There is no other tool in the Online Auction Industry (OAI) that is a "secret", other than this one. It's a secret no more. It wasn't just a marketing gimmick, and as far as "beta testing" goes... it's been in production for a long time now, and in use in thousands of auctions. Beta testing what?
The Keywords program is offered by eBay to everyone. Keywords is a banner advertising campaign, and does NOT affect search results. I'm not thrilled that it exists, but I've used it in the past with excellent result. Still, I repeat, it's not the same as search.
"Featured" listings don't come up as highlighted in search. Only when the categories are browsed. They are promoted to everyone on the listing page.
Search has never been for sale before. It might be someday, but it hasn't been so far... except as far as this tool is concerned. If eBay decides to sell search at some point, your supplier will arrive at eBay and that will be the end of you.... and eBay will just be an eCommerce mall and buyers will get bored and leave. You may disagree, but so far, eBay doesn't. I'm quite sure there has been a push at times internally for this to happen. It's short-sighted, and has been seen as such, so far.
The tool does not increase the aggregate sales on eBay. It does nothing to bring in new buyers or bids. If you increase your sales by 20%, then your competition loses 20% of their sales. Would it be "fair" if they were using it, and you were losing sales and didn't know why? What if you all used it? For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
The revisions process on eBay exists for sellers to revise their listings if they make a mistake, not to provide a loophole. The exploitation of loopholes on eBay is the reason we have a 356,435 page User Agreement. Now we will have a 356,453 page user agreement.
If they tool had been public, and not hidden, it would have been gone a long time ago.
~

[evilanggellene]

Monika just laid it out in layman's terms for the Debster. See OTWA link in Ross's post.

[rossshow]

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?t=32120&page=41&pp=15

She sure does...



First of all I have to post a correction. Debnroo's comment that the tool is working surprised me, so I checked. It is working, however it appears that it was down for 24 hours+ from what I can tell. No idea whether it was broken or switched off then on again.

Hi Roo, I'm Monika and I was sitting to Deb's right when we were all in the conference room the day you visited. With one or two exceptions, no one in that room is with Ethical any longer. Did you see the coder room when you were there? It's empty now, except for one coder who comes in when he's not working at his job at Pizza Hut (it pays). He leaves for college within two weeks.

The Ethical you visited no longer exists. The big boss grew bored with auction tools and invested Ethical money into www.runehq.com (http://www.runehq.com/), a kids' gaming site, where he planned to scam eBay and these kids via eBay's referral system (it pays $20 per new user). That's how "Ethical" was going to make its money. He did this of his own volition without discussing it with all the company owners.

Two of the owners, Bill and Lou, objected to this when they heard it, after which baseless (and slanderous) accusations were made about them and they were suspended from the company for three days. That was June 24, and they've heard nothing further. I've heard in the last few days that the boss is saying it was all a "misunderstanding".

We never got paid. Some people left before Bill and Lou were "suspended" because of that; for the rest of us, what happened to them was the last straw.

The revenue from the Sell-Through tool is supporting the gaming site or "Ethical" would no longer give a rat's ass about the auction tools. The boss realized it would take WORK to be successful in the AMS industry, he couldn't do it on his name alone, and moved on to prey on a new industry innocent of any knowledge of auction tools. Kids.

The tool causing all the furor is supported by one part-time coder who isn't even getting paid. The person who owns the code is no longer with the company. No Work-For-Hire agreements were ever signed. "Ethical" is making money from a tool they don't even own to support a kids' gaming site they hope to scam.

There's quite a bit more as people here can attest, but you get the idea. When you talk to anyone at "Ethical" about this, be prepared for the huge blast of hot wind that will hit you from the spin you'll get. He's a great talker. That's all it is. Talk. We all know what talk's worth.

You're welcome to email me at monika at ethicalfools.com and I can put you in touch with anyone formerly associated with the company.

Monika

[Powerhouse]

Wow!

(Freaking 5 character minimum!!!! :1modhat: )

[thentavius]

Wow! It sure seems like a lot of people are emotionally attached to this tool. It's kinda creepy.

I still think this was a situation that needed open discussion. It still needs open discussion.

If the tool is deemed worthy and acceptable by eBay, it should be available to EVERYONE. That's what bothered me most, and what bothered some of the other posters on this board and on OTWA. The exclusive club situation. Make a tool, advertise it to EVERYONE. The more subscribers, the better for the maker, afterall!

I said in previous posts on OTWA that I am not angry with the users of the tool. If they wish to subscribe to something that eBay says is OK, so be it. If eBay says it is NOT OK, then they must also be willing to unsubscribe.

What IS creepy is some of the strange emotional responses spread across all the boards from some of the users of the tool. Makes it seem like it's more than a tool. Almost like it's a relationship or something? Am I the only one seeing that about some responses? No negativity intended. Just an observation.

There are lots of business practices that might seem unethical. Some tools might seem unethical. There are existing programs and tools that do similar things to this one (SAPro, for one)--but all of the other tools and programs encourage open enrollment of anyone willing.

At first, the limited number of users was what really piqued my interest. Later on, it was the duality of the eBay response "approved / not approved" that became more and more interesting. Did eBay approve the tool, without having fully researched it (and do they do this sort of thing all the time?). Did eBay approve the tool knowing what it did, but not realizing with full awareness the kind of impact it could or could not have? Did eBay approve it knowing what it did-end of story (only to remove it when it got a lot of negative press). Will eBay remove everything that gets negative press?

Lots of intriguing questions here.

And speaking of "remove it," --DID eBay disallow the use of the tool? I've read posts about given sellers' products all ending without relistings, and then also read the posts from the PeSA members who say it's working fine (posted here).

What is it, then? Why is there so much mystery surrounding this thing? Why are there so many inflamed emotions?

[thentavius]

I should rephrase this one sentence from above:

Original sentence:
What IS creepy is some of the strange emotional responses spread across all the boards from some of the users of the tool. Makes it seem like it's more than a tool. Almost like it's a relationship or something? Am I the only one seeing that about some responses? No negativity intended. Just an observation.

I SHOULD say:
What IS creepy is some of the strange emotional responses spread across all the boards from some of the users of the tool, and from some of those involved with the tool in some way--as well as from those who are not users OR involved. Makes it seem like it's more than a tool. Almost like it's a relationship or something? Am I the only one seeing that about some responses? No negativity intended. Just an observation.

[Powerhouse]

What IS creepy is some of the strange emotional responses spread across all the boards from some of the users of the tool. Makes it seem like it's more than a tool. Almost like it's a relationship or something? Am I the only one seeing that about some responses? No negativity intended. Just an observation.

Well, I probably react the same way about my Kirby vacuum, so I guess it's not too strange to me anyway.

[rossshow]

More stuff at OTWA


http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?t=32120&page=42&pp=15

Hot stuff!

[10x]

extream power sellers should be carfull when showing up on the boards when it may be easy to nail them fer ther ??? Ethical eBay behavor??. ROTFLMAO.

[thentavius]

Well, I probably react the same way about my Kirby vacuum, so I guess it's not too strange to me anyway.

Heck--I'd probably show a bigger emotional reaction to my $42 Wal-Mart special vacuum than I would for this tool.

LOL.

(Not to derail the juicy thread, but I've heard Kirby vacuums are kick ass. Are they?).

[packyrat]

Mikey.....admitting being that attached to a vaccum cleaner just explained some things about you....or opened up a lot of NEW questions! :D

thentavius said:What IS creepy is some of the strange emotional responses spread across all the boards from some of the users of the tool, and from some of those involved with the tool in some way--as well as from those who are not users OR involved. Makes it seem like it's more than a tool. Almost like it's a relationship or something? Am I the only one seeing that about some responses?

Good observation!

As far as the users of the tool.....doesn't take a doctorate degree to figure out why they are so passionate.....it *IS* manipulating the system and making them some serious bucks courtesy of their competitor's wallets. They don't want to see it go because they will have to list a minimum of 10 auctions for the same item spread over 5 days.....and pay FULL load to eBay.....to achieve the same exposure they are getting from letting the tool do it. That's the only way they can keep their widgets on BOTH the newest listed and ending soonest pages EACH day. They don't want to lose the advantage it is giving them.

Now I am going to probably step on a toe or two with the other point in your post....and if I do....so be it.

My personal belief is that Bill & Lou are being SO passionate in defending it because it most likely is the MAIN tool that stands being any REAL asset of ET and they are hoping that at a minimum, it can be sold to someone like ChannelAdvisor so they can recoup any kind of return on their investment of the time & energy that they invested while "in servitude" to Scotty. I think it comes down more to dollars & cents than any deep belief in the validity or "ethicalness" of the tool. Remember....they may be OUT "at" ethical...but they each still own 12% of it! Having eBay nuke what seems to be the money maker tool of the bunch, impacts what their ownership is worth.

I was the unofficial Ethical mushroom of the original 12 people.....kept in the dark and fed a LOT of bullshit....and all from a distance of 1000+ miles....but I *did* save almost all the emails and IMs when I started wondering why things were getting a little evasive and odorous.

[rca001]

So what is the harm to the average seller if eBay changes the rules and limits the number of changes/modifications you can make to a given auction to only one or two length changes, one or two category changes, etc? It still allows an auction to be "improved" but eliminates the gaming of the system. Would this be a problem for the majority of ebay users?
rca001

[evilanggellene]

extream power sellers should be carfull when showing up on the boards when it may be easy to nail them fer ther ??? Ethical eBay behavor??. ROTFLMAO.

I love it when they show up and run their mouths. Just another one to make sure I DON'T buy anything from. Not that I'm sure they care about losing me as a customer but you never know how many others as well as lurkers are out there and not impressed with them either.

[rockinwriter]

I am curious about something. The core group was courting Buy Safe (I think that was the name of the bonding company), hot and heavy in the beginning as they were trying to work out a deal and they were going to invest in the company. Did Buy Safe ever invest with the LITTLE FRENCH FRY EATING FREAK? Can any of you tell us just exactly who did invest, because I know some money came from somewhere around Christmas of last year. I bet those investors are mad as hell right now.

[10x]

"Can any of you tell us just exactly who did invest"

And if any loans were taken out on all this?

[Powerhouse]

(Not to derail the juicy thread, but I've heard Kirby vacuums are kick ass. Are they?).

I tell ya, If I weren't standing on the carpet while vacuuming it would pull the damn carpet off the floor! Love my Kirby. Especially love knowing that my carpet is definetly clean after running that monster over it. :)


Ken, nothing wrong at all about a man with a vacuum - I mean it IS a power tool, right? :P

[Eriu]

Ken, nothing wrong at all about a man with a vacuum - I mean it IS a power tool, right? :P


TMI!! TMI!!!


:1rotfl1:

[rockinwriter]

Can anyone tell me the name of the company you were trying to get their techie to come work for you. Seems like I heard it said that he had worked for the LITTLE FREAK previously. I know he was from California and he decided he did not want to leave his girlfriend. I was told that while you were talking with him another one of your ethical bunch was stealing his codes or something another.

[rockinwriter]

Does ethical have anything to do with morals? HaHaHa
Let's not sugar coat what went on.

[Powerhouse]

Hey, leafblower, lawn mower... I do it all, Babe. :D

[Emily]

Gotta love Tanya

from the ebay stores board thread (http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000039237&start=94)

I think eBay pulled the tool because it would be a buyers nightmare and a sellers wet dream.

:1rotfl2:

[rockinwriter]

And Spammed The Hell Out Of Buy Safe

[marble]

I hear tell that the little Smurf has posted some very coherent messages lately on the "Ruined IQ" board. Maybe he finally ran out of Xanax? Either that or he doesn't need it now that he no longer has to answer to and deal with the intelligent people he drove away.

Someone earlier alluded to him as being a wacky genius. I have do disagree with that. Manipulative, yes. Genius, definitely not. Based on some of the completely stupid things I've seen him do and heard him say, his IQ could only be slightly above average -- at best.

Delusions of grandeur do not a genius make.

[rockinwriter]

AND SPAMMED THE HELL OUT OF OVERSTOCK...........I started getting emails from them several months ago.............I WONDER HOW THEY GOT MY EMAIL unless they got it from someone who had emailed me..........HA HA HE HE HAW :1evil3:
Does ethical have anything to do with morals? :1evil3:

[packyrat]

Ken, nothing wrong at all about a man with a vacuum - I mean it IS a power tool, right?

Mikey....I am much more worried about how attachments like hoses may turn you on!

I remember reading a VERY strange letter in Penthouse years ago that involved vaccums! :1crazy2:

[rockinwriter]

Does intelligence have anything to do with being SMART?

[Powerhouse]

Mikey....I am much more worried about how attachments like hoses may turn you on!

I remember reading a VERY strange letter in Penthouse years ago that involved vaccums! :1crazy2:

Ah - See? Your mind is DIRTY! My mind is CLEAN.
Shall I run my Kirby across your head for you? :D

[rockinwriter]

Would one of those intelligent people who worked for the :4kool-aid Kid answer some questions please.

Who dreamed up the tool everyone is going ape shit over? NO ONE SEEMS TO WANT TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
Did you ever get any legal contracts drawn up, or did you rely on the little freak to draw them up?
Why did you never tell the late arrivers what they were getting into? Seems like you might have given them a heads up since you LOVE THEM SO MUCH.
DID BUY SAFE SAFE EVER START THE MONTHLY INSTALLMENTS YOU WERE COUNTING ON?
Where did the little freak get all the money to buy all those beer cans, (thousands of dollars worth) back at the beginning of this year.
WHAT POSSESSED YOU TO EAT RAMON NOODLES WHEN THE FREAK WAS HAVING FRIES AND BUYING BEER CANS.
Just curious since all were so damn INTELLIGENT!!!!!!!!

[evilanggellene]

Where did the little freak get all the money to buy all those beer cans, (thousands of dollars worth) back at the beginning of this year.


Yes, can someone please tell us where the money for the beer cans came from?

I think, at the very least, we deserve an answer to that question!!!!

Oh, and where are those beer cans now? Are they part of the company assets? Were they paid for with Ethical Company Checks?

[foptiludrop]

TOY has one heck of a question from DEBNROO awaiting him over on that eBay thread:

So, in your OPINION, what is the definition of SM.

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000039237&start=80

[Toy Ranch]

Not really, Fop. eBay used the term "search manipulation" originally. It's up to them to define. If eBay says it's not search manipulation, and it's OK to do, then I'll go back to promoting the method of gaming the system on eBay's boards.

[johnny]

TOY has one heck of a question from DEBNROO awaiting him over on that eBay thread:



http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000039237&start=80

In the absence of a legitimate argument, he's trying to trick Bobby into defeat by playing word games. He doesn't know Bobby too well. The more I see of these PESAshits the more :1madrealm I get.

[packyrat]

Why did you never tell the late arrivers what they were getting into? Seems like you might have given them a heads up since you LOVE THEM SO MUCH.

I can't speak for anyone that was *IN* Chicago, but in my email archives, I have one from Scotty where I was basically ordered to NOT communicate with anyone except him.....specifying: no email, boards, or IMs. When I attempted to get that clarified as to meaning absoultely NO communications even with people like Marjie, Marie, Bill, etc.....it was ignored. He outed me publically; right after my mom died; as having been offered a position with ET and there were a couple of people that remembered that post, that I was afraid to even talk to for a couple of months as they usually asked me "when are you moving to Chicago?" My impression (as the mushroom& re-reading emails) is that somewhere around mid-December last year, he began locking down everything communication-wise, due to the lack of funding. Bill & Lou would have to address it from their point of view and the "heads up" question.

As far as the beer can spending sprees.....again I can only assume but would think that he was dipping into his Honesty~Andale~eBay stocks and reserves from when he sold Honesty. He also DID sell off some from his collection around the same time. I would hope that he wouldn't have been dumb enough to misdirect corporate funds to his personal collecting fetish. Again....someone that was *IN* Chicago can probably shed better light on that.

[MattR81]

Did you ever get any legal contracts drawn up, or did you rely on the little freak to draw them up?

There were a lot of promises. Hasn't this been driven into the ground through discussion yet?

There were always promises of things to come.. "ohh the grandeur! No time for paper! Trust me!"

Why did you never tell the late arrivers what they were getting into?

I didn't know, myself, what I was into. In fact, I toured colleges (in Kentucky) looking for fellow bright minds that could help us get the programming portion of our project complete. Ask Bill about these trips.

Yes, can someone please tell us where the money for the beer cans came from?

I think, at the very least, we deserve an answer to that question!!!!

Oh, and where are those beer cans now? Are they part of the company assets? Were they paid for with Ethical Company Checks?

Where did the little freak get all the money to buy all those beer cans, (thousands of dollars worth) back at the beginning of this year.

There are "hundreds of thousands of dollars" invested in eBay shit (can I say "shit".. I guess I mean "eBay crap") in the freak's garage.

WHAT POSSESSED YOU TO EAT RAMON NOODLES WHEN THE FREAK WAS HAVING FRIES AND BUYING BEER CANS.

Ha! No way did I eat ramen noodles! I'm a strict vegetarian (as in "vegan") and I ate fairly well. Don't get me wrong -- I had to constantly argue to get money for food, but there was no way I was eating garbage just so someone else would have cash to buy beer cans or whatever.

Actually, at the beginning, the food was excellent! ..and we had "an allowance", if you will, for movies and going to the bars or whatever. Then, more and more people came and less and less money was handed out.

Just curious since all were so damn INTELLIGENT!!!!!!!

Some amazingly brilliant people worked for Ethical Technologies.. If we would've had decent leadership at the right time and a .. nevermind. I'm sure that hundreds, if not thousands, of dot-com companies with similarly brilliant programmers have wondered why their companies fall apart too.

[foptiludrop]

Uh... I was going for a joke -- meaning, the "other" SM. ;)

Nevermind...

[Toy Ranch]

Uh... I was going for a joke -- meaning, the "other" SM. ;)

Nevermind...

Ah, yes... OK :) Lots of seriousness lately. ;) Ya threw me off.

[packyrat]

WHOOOOOOA!

Hey Bobby....I think you just got complimented PUBLICALLY by Jay in the stores thread!

I gotta go outside and see if it is snowing in Florida in August!

[Emily]

Matt - thanks for posting! :)

Back on the ebay thread (http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000039237&start=119), Jay compliments Toy:
Just wanted to say I'm very proud of Bobby's post #102. Truly. Good work. I can't say that I agree with your agenda and your methods, but you have effectively just wiped out most of the reasons I was harboring for not liking or respecting you. It's good to see you raising a bar rather than lowering one.

Pompously, as always,

JAY

:D

[foptiludrop]

Give us a link, Packy!

[foptiludrop]

Er... thanks, Emily! :D

[kailin]

Here's my experience, which dates from July to November 2004, mostly.

I was ordered to not chat with a large number of people. As I recall, they were almost all female and perceived as being conduits to a female who was said to be disloyal in one important aspect, perhaps, and a problem for some other reasons having to do with at least one key member of PESA. There's one conversation that was directed at one other person plus myself. I remember saying I was stunned. I wish I had quickly picked up my cell phone and rung up the "disloyal" person. I will always regret that I didn't. Looking back, I recall that all the "in" people supported these possibly slanderous statements. Not a single ONE of you guys contradicted it!!!!

You (the "disloyal" female) know who you are and if you are reading this, contact me directly if you want to know what was said about you. This time, there is corroboration because there was another person who was told the same outrageous stuff at the same time.

Anyhow, Ken, I was told repeatedly to not communicate with certain people. And the refrain about "those damn parties" was heard over and over in the midst of my sojourn in the vicinity of this enterprise.

Yes, I'm making a list of the "clues" that I ignored. This attempt to control all communication finally got to me -- based on experience when married to a person who attempted to control all my relationships, especially with women. So, at that point, I began to see that something was amiss. Lots of other factors, but that's all that's germane to this discussion. It did seem that women who were attached firmly to men who were important to the "plan" were tolerated.

And BTW, if anyone knows how I can check my laptop to see if Andy-**** put anything on it that might still be working over a broadband line, please let me know. I used my own laptop and after a few weeks put on a password, but I know that little (nevermind) would have been able to get past it pretty easily. OTOH, maybe whatever the Chinese maybe put on when I was over there last trip cancelled whatever he put on! :1rotfl2:


HI MATT! Just saw it got to you too.
I think we left at about the same time. My highest regards to your family -- I remember they cared enough to come and visit you.

[Clakker]

The bored_ID person signs their posts just like Jay

Pompously, as always,

[packyrat]

And the refrain about "those damn parties" was heard over and over in the midst of my sojourn in the vicinity of this enterprise.

Hummm....hey Kathy, ya know it might be REAL interesting if all of us outside "the core" got together and compared notes....maybe even call it AE-3 since that one never came together after eBayLive last year.

I know that some of the things that I was told about the parties and accusations that were made by Scott after them would make for very interesting discussion. And I have an email and IM archived that alleges to WHY the chat board was set up....I call it the "werk kenny" strategy.

The more things come out....the more I shake my head.

[kailin]

yeah, well, let me know -- You're welcome up at the farm after I get back there :D

Not sure which chat board you're talking about -- was I part of it?

So far as I know, the olde farmhouse is not bugged, yet!

[Emily]

Well, I honestly don't see why you can't do AE-3 HERE. It seems like there is a whole lot of trying to say something without really saying anything and it's frustrating as hell.

Okay, trying to protect the innocent, I guess. Well, if any of you know anything about me or what was said about me, I'd prefer you just post it all. Maybe someone can explain what was meant by "We have to get Barbara - she is the key to Emily" (waving to Barb in case she is lurking ;) )

I'm going crazy now trying to figure out who this "key" woman was. I have a guess, but it's really more like a shot in the dark.

Oh hell. It doesn't really matter, does it? What matters is those kids!!!

[kailin]

Emily -- in respect of the person I'm referencing, I think it's up to her what she'd want to have reported. I'm not going to make something public without her permission. Even the "end" of the kids doesn't justify that as a "means."

[packyrat]

The AE chatboard....scott has some interesting claims as to why it originated....or at least what was said to me about it. He probably used that story several times when convenient when smooozing.

My first clue that something was up was when the DOUA site began being hosted by Tanya instead of ET and Marjie all but disappeared from posting at AE. It just didn't sink in at the time because Scott kept reassuring me with "your place is reserved here whenever you are ready."

What is also interesting is that of the 12 people at the original set up meeting in March of 2004....two dropped off the radar completely.....never moved to Chicago, nor have I heard their names mentioned since as far as the company was concerned. One hasn't posted to any board in a year and the other posts very infrequently.

I had lunch with Cathe & Tommy yesterday as they were in the area on vacation. Some of the things that came up while we were reminiscing jogged a memory cell or two.

I think there are a LOT more pieces to this puzzle than what we have seen so far.

[Emily]

Emily -- in respect of the person I'm referencing, I think it's up to her what she'd want to have reported. I'm not going to make something public without her permission. Even the "end" of the kids doesn't justify that as a "means."

Then why post anything? Once again it looks to me like you are saying "I know something about somebody but I'm not going to tell you." There is a word for posts like that.

And if it's who I think it is, she probably doesn't look here much if ever anyway. Why not just email her directly?

Geez - I didn't want to be the one posting this. I thought one of the other Rossites would say it. I don't want to shut you up either, but the post you made just bugs the hell outta me.

[kailin]

Sorry -- responsibility is sometimes a balancing act.

Like you said, it doesn't matter. I would treat you exactly the same way -- not post something about you on a board without talking with you first.

No, don't trust email, sorry.

[rockinwriter]

Someone on the other board was wondering who in the art world is using this tool. One of the large art dealers Bill knows is chrismanart I pulled up one of his listings and saw that the duration of auction had been changed 2 times. Maybe somebody else can figure that out better than me.

IN A MOMENT THE WORLD SHALL HEAR YOU :1fuck2:

[rockinwriter]

You can learn a lot from a DUMMY :1evil3:

[rockinwriter]

:1bradquac :1bradquac :1bradquac

The iceberg is chipping away........

IN A MOMENT THE WORLD SHALL HEAR YOU

THOSE OF YOU SHAKING IN YOUR BOOTS RIGHT NOW, MIGHT AS WELL STEP UP TO THE PLATE, BECAUSE THE TRUTH WILL COME OUT.....

[rockinwriter]

Can anyone tell me if a person with the last name of Vincent is in PESA

[marble]

If this supposed "disloyal" person is who I think it is, I was told the story and shown copies of printed email and for the life of me could not understand what the ado was. Except, of course, that she contradicted the Smurf in a he said/she said disagreement over a fish.

Yes, "those damn parties." Maybe we're talking about the same person.

I wonder.

[rockinwriter]

Ain't it funny how each one knows a little piece of information, and then you put 2 and 2 together, and figure out something.

chrismanart user id .....I HAVE PULLED UP THREE LISTINGS SO FAR, AND EACH HAS MULTIPLE REVISIONS FOR AUCTION DURATION..............

HOT DAMN :1fuck2:

[marble]

And if it's who I'm talking about, I chatted on the phone with her very recently and got her side of the story. Is anyone surprised that it didn't quite match what the Smurf was sputtering about? Of course not.

[rockinwriter]

Bring It On Packyrat

[mrpotatoheadd]

There *really* needs to be two threads for this topic- one for people to actually discuss the topic, and another for people to hint at the stuff they know but can't talk about.

[gigilee]

http://www.otwa.com/community/showpost.php?p=282598&postcount=647

"Jonathan Gariss, I believe."

Johnathan Garriss has NOTHING to do with Ethical.

Be careful. You need to be really careful.

You want to accuse people of speaking out of turn?

The idea of this tool came from a Pesa member, a key seller. The one that defends Scott.

Is anyone reading these threads?
I'll tell you Roo.


Parsing BiggBill-speak -- Debnroo was the PESA seller that came up with the Sell-Through tool idea? Is this correct?

If so, I wonder if they get a piece of the action from the tool ala the Jay and Marie relister tool .... that would make their frenzied defense of all things Ethical make a lot more sense to me.

[Toy Ranch]

No, not debnroo. It was a different seller, a guy named Ben. Some of the posts I put up from PeSA defending Scott on the old board were from him.

[gigilee]

Thanks Toy. The line "I'll tell you Roo" fooled me.

[rockinwriter]

Now another thing I am wondering......and wondered at the time.....
Supposedly you had to be on the payroll to have insurance.....with the little French Fry eating FREAK......My daughter and I had the worthless insurance for several months and guess what we never got a payroll check. Could the little Freak have manipulated those payments in any way? Like out of our pockets into one of his pockets? The man who did the insurance for the company knew what was going on and he was acting as an agent for the insurance company. I think I will just report the whole damn bunch to the Illinois Dept of Insurance tomorrow.

[evilanggellene]

Now another thing I am wondering......and wondered at the time.....
Supposedly you had to be on the payroll to have insurance.....with the little French Fry eating FREAK......My daughter and I had the worthless insurance for several months and guess what we never got a payroll check.

Maybe you were like on a really really long UNPAID vacation and didn't know about it?

[rockinwriter]

I am guessing that none of these INTELLIGENT people had access to the books. There has to be a money trail somewhere. Even if it is for buying Ramon noodles. I am guessing there were two sets of books.

[rockinwriter]

WILL THE REAL INVESTORS PLEASE STEP FORWARD......YOU KNOW IT IS GOING TO BE FOUND OUT.....


I am not real familiar with corporate law, but is there any kind of record that is public knowledge when someone invests money in a corporation. There has to be some way of getting that information.

[rockinwriter]

As I said earlier
You can learn a whole lot from a DUMMY :

[rockinwriter]

Can anyone tell me what 12% of 555 MILLION dollars is............ :1bradquac :1evil3:

[Toy Ranch]

Can anyone tell me what 12% of 555 MILLION dollars is............ :1bradquac :1evil3:


666 and 5 zero's

[rossshow]

45 pages

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?t=32120&page=45&pp=15

[kim]

"unmentionable tool"...!?

- hahahaha they're trying to sell peni...

[evilanggellene]

After reading all this why do I have this constant ringing of "ME! ME! ME!" in my head?

You have one side:

The sellers that use the tool are only interested in their bottom line...anyone who gets in their way be damned. It's like trying to talk to a bunch of 3 year olds and explain to them why it isn't fair.

The middle:

The Ex-Ethical crew is obsessed with their 12%. That 12% obviously hinged on one lousy tool that still remains.

The Other side:

And the rest of us that disparage THE SMURF are only causing this fracas because of some mean spirited agenda. We are hurting the PESA's (who my heart bleeds for!), while at the same time, hurting those that still have a steak, er I mean STAKE in Ethical.

You know what? When everyone gets back on the same page, it will be really nice.

[SneakyDave]

Maybe Off Topic?

Paul from DealTree claims he's not in PeSA anymore, can anybody confirm that?

[rockinwriter]

Maybe the tool was limited to the first 250 people, because it would overload the system if everyone had access to it. Now, if that is true, it is not a fair tool to use.

[rockinwriter]

I was just checking chrismanart who appears to be using the tool. The auctions I have looked at appear to have 3 revisions. The first one is for description and then the other two revisions are for duration.

If this is a tool that only a few could use because of systems overload, and was not accessible to all, then it appears to me that would be totally unfair to the ebay community. If this was giving the so called "elite" an unfair advantage and was previously sanctioned by ebay, I wonder if the ebay sellers have any recourse. MAYBE WE ALL GOT DUPED IN THIS DEAL

[sibs ling]

Wanda~

Somewhere, either in these 20+ pages or the 45+ pages on OTWA (Ross has provided links), it has been stated repeatedly that the 250 users limit was simply a marketing tool.

A supply and demand scenario was set up with a fictitious supply number.

As for all of your other questions...

While the questions are good and the answers are probably MOST interesting, it makes sense that the answers won't be provided at this time.

The people "in the know" may or may not have a legal case in this situation. Jeopardizing a potential lawsuit, to provide answers on a chat board would, most likely, be the MOST STUPIDEST thing that I've ever witnesssed.

[mrpotatoheadd]

Somewhere, either in these 20+ pages or the 45+ pages on OTWA (Ross has provided links), it has been stated repeatedly that the 250 users limit was simply a marketing tool.One person's "marketing tool" is another person's "lying to prospective customers." It's all in how you look at it. :1clap5:

[Therp]

Ebay's vaunted 'level playing field' isn't the altruistic 'stick up for the little guy' that it sounds to be, it is very necessary to maintain for ebay to make their claim to be 'just a venue' legally defenceable. Once they lose that defenceability they open themselves up to all kinds of legal problems with Federal, State, and foreign governments in regard to their liability for the sales that happen there. Everything from taxes to product safety to even the legality of some sales.

So the big problem with this tool that makes it unacceptable is merely the marketing ploy used by Ethical. If the tool were available to everyone who was willing to plunk down the cash to use it, it would be no problem. But as a 'limited' tool - only available to so many sellers, and apparently not at all to sellers in a particular category - Ebay will not officially sanction it because to do so would leave themselves open to legal problems. And it is my feeling that they will not even unofficially sanction it, because if at anytime it can be proven that they do, they again leave themselves open to legal problems. All it would take is one email to a powerseller telling them that it is ok to use the tool, to open up a big can of worms for Ebay.

Ebay needs to maintain at least a level of plausible deniability. And in this instance I think it will result in the tool being made inoperable in one way or another. Personally, if it were up to me, the easy way to do that would be for Ebay to institute a fee for every revision past the first one. Something that would be sufficient to discourage the power sellers from using the tool.

Just my opinion. YMMV

[thentavius]

There *really* needs to be two threads for this topic- one for people to actually discuss the topic, and another for people to hint at the stuff they know but can't talk about.

I second this suggestion.

[rockinwriter]

I feel so sorry for the "elite" bunch. Maybe if they call the little FREAK up he will come on over and help them sort out their auctions.
Maybe if the ethical group had set their sites according to their name, tHERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A DIFFERENT OUTCOME

Now onward to the other stories that are bound to come out. As Yogi once said: IT AIN'T OVER TILL IT'S OVER

[rockinwriter]

It Ain't Over Till The Fat Lady Sings


Break A Leg

It Ain't Nice To Fool With Mother Nature

[rockinwriter]

Oh, And My Favorite:

When You Lay With Dogs You Get Fleas

[Pam]

Wanda,

We all know all the cliches. We understand that you are frustrated and angry. But the things you are posting really aren't helping your cause any, they are going to cause people to start skipping what you say.

[rockinwriter]

I understood that ebay does not allow the tool to be used anymore. Maybe I was mistaken. Anyway, I pulled up an auction # 7706317580 that appears to have been revised today from a one day auction to a three day auction. This is one of the core group's friend, and it appears they use the tool. Can anyone explain if I am mistaken about this.

[Pam]

At OTWA, somebody pointed out that they only have to stop marketing it. The people who were already using it can apparently keep using it, at least for now.

[mrpotatoheadd]

debnroo doubts the sincerity of some of the ex-E employees...
debnroo (20307 ) View Listings | Report Aug-11-05 16:54 PDT 170 of 174

As for the ex-employee posts, I do not believe they are all 100% pure.
...

In addition, there are two sides to this story - according to Scott S. the money went somewhere else, and he claims to have written evidence and affidavits.
...

I have talked directly with many of the people involved - the ex-employees through the message boards (and I plan on calling my original contacts, as soon as I can find them as they are not participating online), AND I spent 90 minutes on the phone with Scott S. to hear his side.

(some snips)
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000039237&start=160

[kailin]

Go to the place on the ad where you see the word that eBay puts on each page ...
Description

In ( ) behind it is (revised)
Click on that word revised and you can see what revisions have been made to the ad.

In the one you posted, yes, it had had one "duration" revision, and since it is now a 3-day ad, it would have started as a 1-day ad.

[FreakSpeak]

busy, busy, busy on RuneHq.

~~~~~~~Update~~~~~~~

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We would like to again apologize for this issue, the growth of the site is causing us to have to continually update things to keep up, and these changes are not without problems.

We do our best to minimize these things and address them quickly when they occur. We are sorry this problem was so hard to overcome quickly. There is a lot of factors involved and we learned some valuable lessons. We are taking measures to ensure things like this do not happen again.

If you registered on the forums this morning after the maintenance please re-register. We will try to put back the accounts that we have knowledge of that are still in the backup from this morning.

All of us at shrewd softworks are doing our best to make RuneHQ and all of our future endevors your entertainment choice on the web!

By the way, How many burnt lobsters do you have???

~MrStormy~


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RuneHQ forums are currently down and may be down the better part of the day while we resolve some issues.

We performed a software upgrade last night of the MySQL server and things did not go well. We, at the current time have lost all forum data from yesterday Aug 10, 2005. This includes all posts, pm, registrations and forum changes that were made.

We are attempting to recover from this but it may take some time, if it is at all possible.

We are truly sorry for this inconvienience and are working hard at getting this resolved if possible and as soon as possible. If it turns out not to be possible, we will have to live with the loss of yesterdays data and try to pick up the pieces.

~MrStormy~

[Powerhouse]

Seriously - what kind of dumbass goes for an SQL upgrade without doing a backup first??? :1bonk1:

Some people are born to be screwed. :irollers2

[Jasmine]

Wonder what Scott told Roo?????

[evilanggellene]

Wonder what Scott told Roo?????

Oh, let's see he probably told her the Honesty story, how he invented the internet and ecommerce...

I'm sure it was a stimulating conversation. Lots of ego stroking for sure.

[biggbill]

I hope he was not eating when he talked to him.

A video of THAT would win 100k easy!

Man.

[mrpotatoheadd]

Oh, let's see he probably told her the Honesty story, how he invented the internet and ecommerce...

I'm sure it was a stimulating conversation. Lots of ego stroking for sure.
Scott Samuel: I went to North Central College in Naperville, Ill. graduating in '90 with a BA in History, with an emphasis on English, communications and psychology.
http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abu/y204/m05/abu0118/s05

It'd be a shame not to put some of that stuff to use... ;)

[Eriu]

Seriously - what kind of dumbass goes for an SQL upgrade without doing a backup first??? :1bonk1:

Some people are born to be screwed. :irollers2



The kind of people that want to loose data intentionally. :D

[marble]

The kind of people that want to loose data intentionally. :D

Ding! :1snoop: :1modhat:

[larruone]

Ding! That's what I thought too.

Scott Samuel: I went to North Central College in Naperville, Ill. graduating in '90 with a BA in History, with an emphasis on English, communications and psychology

Oh, I think he put some of that to EXCEPTIONALLY skillful use.

IMHO, he's a cult leader personality with some twists.

[rossshow]

http://www.otwa.com/community/showthread.php?t=32120&page=46&pp=15




In order to do or undo anything on our listings, I have to pay an employee or subcontractor to do those things. That costs money.

I know what I have spent on the project already. Yep, measured in thousands.

Now, if you all want to say I have spent too much, I might even agree with you. But I am doing the best I can with local resources. But the cost is not going to be zero to go back and revise all of our listings - grant me that much.

As for defending the tool, but warning others away from the company/owner, let's say you are 100% justified in doing so.

Why wasn't I warned away in April, or May, or June, or July?

Did the problems all materialize on 6/24?

If I had not participated in a thread on a Discussion Board, I would get no warning?

No one disclosed a shakey financial situation when I was being sold the tool. No one disclosed internal struggles over ownership of code. No one disclosed that they were not satisfied with their employment.

I was presented with a different picture.

And, most of the work we have done (read: most of the cost) was spent in July, after the *meltdown* at Ethical.

Why wouldn't the group of you, who say you own code and were tossed out into the street, put out a press release saying as much? I am sure Ina would print what you have to say, don't you agree?

Help me understand how you have the customer's interests at heart. Are you willing to admit that perhaps your intentions might have been good, but in the meantime your actions have led to consequences that are harmful to those customers that you did not intend to harm?

I recognize that this is water under the bridge, but going forward, can you consider the possibility that these discussions on the eBay board, even if you are 100% correct, are not going to help your legal case at all, and do not help customers either?

It is hard to believe that my best interests were in the hearts of some posters on this board, when I come here and find out that someone is doing detective work on my posting (sockpuppet) ID. Name calling does not help your case either.

I realize that everyone is and individual, but I question the idea that I am being treated as anything more than an enemy by at least some.

Perhaps you are holding my views held before I had knowledge of the controversy against me (remember that I assumed that everyone I had met besides Y&B were still working there), but that is not really fair, is it?

From my vantage point, I come back from being in Alaska to find out the tool I am half-way deployed is in the process of being outlawed from eBay. I *hear* about a *furor* on the message boards, but can find no evidence because of threads being removed by eBay. Some I know have called me and told me they were removed for derogatory personal remarks about Scott.

When I go to observe one thread on Store DB, the primary posters are the same ones that are posting here. I don't see any evidence of those posts having any compassion for the customers or the tool. It is all negative towards both.

And, when I arrive here, I find people talking about me behind my back, and doing *investigations* and attacking my wife in a derogatory manner.

Boy, is it any wonder that I don't get a warm fuzzy?

I have my opinion about what is appropriate for any former employee that has a gripe with their former employer - take it to a lawyer, and avoid making a public scene. It is in your best interest. I think most lawyers would agree.

Is this just a game to see who has the last word, or who can cut down someone else?

[boardbimbo]

Would she have to undo in her listings if the tool is banned? The tool doesn't work off anything in a listing as far as I can tell.

[rossshow]

Well, I wouldn't think so.


BB, I liked what you just said, over at OTWA


People get conned all the time. They answer those damnable suspension notices, they give their credit card numbers out; someone worms his way into an old person's sympathies and empties the bank accounts; there is always someone smarter and more malicious than you.

And that's all I can really say. The blame game takes no winners. But there are a lot of people who are much older and sadly enough, much wiser and a sad way.

[socrfan2]

Wow, fun to see a throw-back, true Robber Baron approach to business.

Someone should tell Roo that people have to make changes in their business all the time. Microwaves come along and all that investment in wires is wasted. No lead fuel is required. Plastic gets invented and all those people who made steel cans are scrambling for business. That's life.

"But it will cost MEEEEEEEEE money to undo this" has never been a reason not to require something. Especially for something like this, where it's pretty obvious that the basic tool is built to "game" the system. Roo can make as many legalistic arguments about what the meaning of "is" is, but he had to know this was a pretty sneaky trick. You have to admire the level of obliviousness and self-centeredness of someone who thinks that other peoples' opinion should be swayed because of how this will affect him.

[mrpotatoheadd]

debnroo

As for defending the tool, but warning others away from the company/owner, let's say you are 100% justified in doing so.

Why wasn't I warned away in April, or May, or June, or July?

Did the problems all materialize on 6/24?
DareMe

"Why wasn't I warned away in April, or May, or June, or July?

Did the problems all materialize on 6/24?"

The coders were still there up until a week or so prior to 6/24. We knew of the boss's "eccentricities" but knew that as a team we could overcome them. What we did not foresee was his desire to abandon the tools completely (except to take money for extender) and invest in RuneHQ (for which he needs extender revenues). That came about well after your visit.
DareMe

One thing I forgot, Roo. At the time of your visit, we were to be funded in a matter of weeks. The CEO blew that, too.
janos

"One thing I forgot, Roo. At the time of your visit, we were to be funded in a matter of weeks. The CEO blew that, too."

In other words they were all willing to overlook bizzare and illegal behavior within this company as long as they might strike it rich.

*****

[toke]

Remember when Scott made that smarmy, unctuous post on OTWA...the one all about peace and love? The one that was really all about scarfing up OTWA posters for his new board, AE? The one clearly all about business no matter what he said?

He showed who he was right then. He showed his ethical system, loyalty to friends, truthfulness, honor...all of those things were right there to see in that post. Maybe it was more than one post, I don't remember.

Whatever. That was NOT a good con, because he showed himself plainly. He might as well have worn a sign. If you see someone do what he did...you just don't trust them. (In addition, it's always a 'tell' when someone yammers on and on about their own goodness and total selflessness in all things, IMO.)

He screwed Crystal and Jim and he lied to everyone about the whole rationale for AE. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize if he'd do it to others, he'd sure as hell do it to you if and when it suited his purpose. Then at AE he hid out and let his 'friends' take the heat. That might have been a clue, ya think?

I certainly never knew he was lazy, bad at business, cruel, or any of the other things that have been revealed recently. At the time, I wrongly figured that, though scummy, he was at least a savvy entrepreneur. BUT I sure could see what kind of 'ethics' he had. That alone would have been more than enough to keep me as far away from him as I could get.

[Toy Ranch]

Toke, that was really what turned the worm for me too. I had some idea things were really not as I had thought before leading up to that... but that was the one thing that spelled it all out to me.

A few months ago, when Scott contacted me to ask for a truce, he did address that.

Now, I'm going to do something that I really don't do... and that is post some email. From Scott. I think that people who don't do email with him should see how he spins things. It's wrong of me to do this, and I know that, and I'm doing it anyway. This will be the second time I've done this. The first time was when Tique was lying about email between us several years ago, claiming I had sent her sexually threatening (and illegal) email, and I posted the email, and she claimed I had edited it (another lie). She showed herself by the end of her time on the boards. I got roasted really good for that, and I may here again as well, but I'm still posting it.

And the disparity in the dynamic thread. You took it wrong. No bullshit, I build the dropthred idea for OTWA to take some of the heat off of her.

"her" being Crystal

then later, in the same email:


If you think I tried to kill OTWA, I didn't.

Ill admit, I got very pissed, and I know how the various communication circles out here operate, but, really, what's the point of spreading negativity.



Now, here's a full one. The only thing I took out was some personal stuff he said about Monty, which I did share with Monty, but I won't put it here.

Remember, lots of this is just plain lies... so don't go believing all of it, lol.

I had suggested he go for treatment for whatever substance he was abusing that led him to make those garbled posts in the "Where's Monty" thread at the old Ross board.


The date is 4/3/2005
Explain the treatment thing??

Cause if your thinkn' I be drinkin',or smokin up, God's honest truth ain't, In fact today is 7 years for me... but I'm curious about that line... Bill pointed out the incoherent ross thread, and with Meya's post, that leads me to believe that's the perception,. Actually, it was a fuckup, cause was I typin and dozin at the same time, since I'd been writing up new content for the site. Then I went lookin at the icons cause I'd posted there about 8 times total before.

--

(monty info edit)

--

I glance ross' once a week or so. occasionally OTWA when I see Marie or Lou or one of the guys readin' it. And all I post is silly shit (well, and make an incoherent one to boot today... Wales said it best long ago.. it's fascinating to watch this at times and how individual people react in their own ways, distinct, succinct and fully human. I mean, think about it.
It's incredible. It's Orson Scot card's ansible.

With AE, I don't even have it bookmarked, or it blacked out. I put it up because I wanted to fuck around and didn't want the people on OTWA to have nowhere to go if, as was indicated to me by many people, inside, outside and in various ways (not users) with Andale. And crystal and I would talk about the bullshit and heat she took, too. my motivation for drop thread was TO remove that from her. Originally, crystal didn't use the dynamic, and I played with it,cause I had software for Bob Grabowski and we were gonna do a press pin base. He didn't want it. And I wrote 'this is your board this is your beach, these are your waves." and really, that's how it began... called it Auction Ethics but never tied it to the company beause it's truly mike's board.. I just made the original config. Can't understand why people wouldn't believe that.

--

Ever wonder how many people think of Gaffan regularly anymore, what about MJ Carson. Do they do it equally? Or at all.

--

As for sock puppets, there are none. At least that I know of that post.
I did build one on AE and used it like once. The other was was Bozo-No, and it was to 'march heated threads to the black room with a circus.

There was also manny festoes, which was a joke account, but we abandoned it right way.

But as far as I know, and I do get an overwhelming amount of information, that nothings tipped me to a fake and I highly highly doubt it if some here is... I really firmly believe nobody inside is using one, because after Bill bein in the hospital If they are, well, we'd find out because it's a pretty open vocal get-in-one's face type place. People think we all agree and I call al the shots... HAH! Brooklyn Bridge for sale! Want it? The site release was to be held up until Saturday.


--

A week before bill went into the hospital, he was called by Jim. He said how wonderful bill was that they wanted to work together. It was me Bri him and Lou until right before eBay live. After that call, Bill put Ethical in his tagline on AE and a regular OTWA long-time poster, friend of many, suddenly gets labeled as a spammer for saying stuff about a board who once purchased the other board because a gal and her husband couldn't afford it at the time? And then bashed? Even more in the hospital.... Bobby, I watched this mans heart monitors jump based on posts about him that he was reading, and we know who called Wanda, but long ago we made a pact amongst us here that we'd just keep it all to ourselves.

---

Another thing, you have to realize bill, like you said, isn't dumb, but he's not linguistically savvy. Sure, we could've handled it better, AE and the announcement that we would start some sort of company in '04 or '05, but really, after my dad got the cancer and my dog died, I didn't care if I ever did it again.

----

Oh yea, I will say there was one fuck around we did ... the one sickbed thank you to AE thread on OTWA with the oops, that was my idea. That was my full and total revenge 'getting even' per se, but with compassion. The helicopters thread was gonna be a picture of model toy.

---

Anyway, I'd be damned curious to hear where I've screwed over peoples trust. I mean, I know I'm not perfect, but it'd be interesting to hear the other side for me, and well, you'd end up prolly hearing both. But at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. What's done is done. People realized a few things. I'm fairly smart, but what they fail to realize in the cold world we live in since we decided to be ultra conservative as a country, is that to me, everyone is special, everyone always will be, and I do forgive people.

I have to. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to like who I see in the mirror (there are times I don't, but I do try to do the right thing) Who knows, I mean, ponder this one and I'll end.


I put up AE, with a reasonable suspicion, with very confident sources that there was 95% chance of it being gone by December... even having 'proof' in the forms of an IMs. I knew I'd catch heat doing so, but I also figured it may back around to people, perhaps even the top of Andale, well, they give the domain name back. I mean, a company doesn't give away an asset. They sell it. And, it did take the heat off Crystal, not that I wanted it thrown at me or at us or at anyone.

---

I just find peaceful, highly intense debate to be cool, and yelling and screaming at one another over a computer to be something I did for 15 years too many in my life.

And other thing. No OTWA, and Kenny does eat that bullet that was in the gun by his desk because there was no OTWA, well, that was a big trigger point to click send on 17 mails and see what happened. Wish Hope didn't put the AE thing in her tagline on Day 1 and go rub it in the faces of people there. That's what I call a bozo-no. And then plan a part of fifty without my saying yes (actually yelling at her and saying no.)

--

Again, if ya wanna write back, feel free. I'm gonna be gone at the end of the week and partially mid week too with things at work, but I won't ignore your mails if you send them. In fact, I looked to see if you did reply to the last one the first time I got to my machine today.

Maybe we can get past this, maybe we can't. But, I know I'm willing to at least try, not for any other reason other than I think it'd be something good, which there ain't a whole helluva lot out here like that anymore and I think a vast majority of the people would see it that way,

Best,

Scott

It was after this, Bill said Scott walked into a meeting they had to get ready to talk to an investor and only wanted to talk about how I was no longer a problem.

[snowyegret]

Toke, was that the one ostensibly discussing chatboard dynamics/ trolling for posters/users? The one where he later categorically denied that there were business plans when asked?

Obviously, community as bait worked for some and it came at just the right time to fracture OTWA, IIRC..

[Toy Ranch]

Scott depends on people's respect for the privacy of email to spread all his lies. If everyone he emails shared them back and forth, I know he would have never gotten where he is.... he tells "secrets" and then all those who hear his "secrets" think they are the only one... when actually, there are MANY. All keeping the same or different "secrets". If the "secrets" were all put together, it would have been so obvious to all... but all the special people keep all the secrets, so he just keeps going with it.

I'm sure debnroo have secrets now too. Secrets they won't share, and that make them trust Scott... because he trusted them with his secrets. That's how it works.

[marble]

"Bobby, I watched this mans heart monitors jump based on posts about him that he was reading, "

The three times Scott visited Bill in the ten days Bill was in the hospital, they didn't read any posts together. This I know. What a liar.

[Toy Ranch]

I had a hard time beliving that anyone would carry a laptop or printouts of posts from the internet someone had made that might upset them into intensive care so they could watch their heart monitor jump up and down... but if someone actually did that, it was a low-down, rotten, no-good person for sure...