A time and a place for everything...

[Powerhouse]

Was doing some reading today and found an article about a gay-rights/pride group wanting to march in the St. Patrick's Day parade under their own banner.

Article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060317/ap_on_re_us/st_patrick_s_day

That got me to recalling something similar recently having to do with the White House Easter Egg Hunt.

What is going on???

Why would/should any specified group be permitted to turn a simple, special event into a non-related personal platform? Is it REALLY necessary to further divide our our humanistic identity by espousing greater subdivisions of our societal identities?

Isn't it enough to have a day for St. Patricks celebration without creating irrelevant additional cavets?

Why the push to create and celebrate these additional divisions?

We have a Gay-Pride Day/week (or should have but according to this site there is no established day/week for it yet: http://gaylife.about.com/od/gaypride/a/gaypride2006.htm )

We have Black History month.

Probably many other 'special' official celebratory periods established in order to pay appropriate homage to the specific distinctions that make us special when considered in the context of a combined whole society, so I have to wonder about those that would push their personal distinctions into non-related events???

Do we REALLY need to make allowance in a specified Irish celebration for the organization of 'Hispanic, Gay, Irish, Left-Handed, One-Eyed, Combat Veterans of June 1943' to march in the parade under their own banner?

Are we being 'tolerant' and 'caring' in allowing it, or 'intolerant' and 'uncaring' in disallowing it? At what allowance level do we reach 'reasonable'?

Some may say 'if it's not hurting you then why not allow people to do as they wish?' , and my response would be 'no, it is not hurting me, but all of society in the creation of additional seperations in our species identity.'

Probably an unreasonable pipe dream that one day we should all be able to speak the same language and understand ourselves and each other to the point that we no longer need to point WMD's at each other and could combine our resources to reach a greater understanding of our role in the universe, but I still hope it will someday come true and I do not see the continual redivisions and special allowances of our personal identities as being particularily helpful in that direction.

It is said that there is a time and a place for everything... maybe our time was during the Tower of Babel, or maybe it is yet to come... yet in the wee hours of the night, when only the voices in my head speak to me do I still see that spark of my hope for humanity...

Probably not a good idea for me to stay up and post when I'm so tired.
So be it, It is done.

Peace.

[kim]

allowing - disallowing...!??

who the fuck do - "we" - think we are anyway...?

who are we - to disallow - or - to allow - anything...?

[Heartland]

As far as I'm concerned, if leprechauns can march in the St. Paddy's Day parade, then anyone can! :2headspin

[Emily Rose]

Lots of different groups completely unrelated to St. Patrick and/or Ireland march with group banners in St. Patrick's Day Parades. Why not Irish gays and lesbians? And in my part of the world, everyone of all shades and national origins is Irish on St. Patrick's Day. Must be the beer.

As for the White House Easter Egg hunt, gays and lesbians raise children together (well, lesbians with lesbians and so on) but are denied the most basic recognition as families. And it IS the White House, after all, and nothing that happens there can be considered apolitical in the first place.

Just out of curiosity, why is this is the nasty place? Are folks expected to get out of hand? Will Linda K arrive and post? :1eek2:

[sadie999]

I still see that spark of my hope for humanity

I'm not sure I do. But I always carry a torch of hope for the individual.

I guess I just don't believe that enough quality individuals will be able to overcome the vast majority of mentally mediocre and lazy individuals and thus my lack of hope for humanity in general.

I don't like labels. I never have. I've never met a "rule book" that I didn't have to tear out a page. Which makes me on the outs often with labels that others put on me: liberal, feminist, etc.

After a half a century on this planet, I find that virtually all the things I believed in at 16 are things I still believe in. Maybe teeny differences (like I don't think all marriages are stupid), but the big stuff remains the same.

Which, since I don't think I'm all that special in this respect, leads me to have hope for the individual.

Try not to waste your precious time on the planet on people who don't lead a thoughtful life. There are many quality people out there who will, by their very existences, fill your soul/spirit with joy.

Peace to you,
Sadie

[tekobari]

Why is there a St. Patrick's Day parade for the Irish necessary to begin with? :sm1167:

[mango man]

"blacks and irish need not apply " common signs in the large eastern ctys n the late 1800's

having risen , now the mainstream irish would do the same to others

has a non gay 100% 3rd gen Irish I say let them march .

[Heartland]

Tek, probably for the same reason that the KKK is allowed to march, with the proper permits. Anyone can hold a parade as long as they follow the laws regarding such gatherings.

St. Patrick's Day in America is so far removed from the meaning of the actual feast day for that saint, that it's pretty much a joke to people in Ireland. It's become instead a reason to celebrate the Irish culture in general, which I will admit can be a lot of fun. The same has been done with other "foreign" holidays, such as Cinco de Mayo (for which big celebrations are held in some cities), Oktoberfest, Chinese New Year, etc., although not always on the same scale. The St. Patrick's Day parade in NYC is the longest-running (oldest) parade in the nation, I believe.

I'm more interested in the history of Irish immigration. Young men who came from Ireland were forced to immediately join the army upon their arrival, and were sent immediately away to do battle. Discrimination and prejudice against the Irish were rampant, as was unimaginable poverty. Yet, they rose above it in the end, and their labor built many of the great cities of this country, as well as influencing business and politics. It's an amazing and colorful history, and I enjoy celebrating it with my fellow Irish descendents.

I haven't looked into the gay situation enough to know if the reason they are being denied is on religious grounds, or some other reason. It is, after all, a Catholic saint who is supposedly being honored, and the Catholic church does deny the gay lifestyle. I don't agree with them, but I try to look at it as an atheist group demanding to join the KKK march ... or the St. Patty's parade, for that matter. I don't see a lot of difference. And they have their own parade in NYC, too, I believe.

People should feel free to do their own thing, and not demand to intrude on other people's "things." In that respect, I agree with Mike.

[Renegade Poster]

It's not gays that have set themselves apart- it's society, church, and politicians that have set them apart, by word and deed, by doctrine and law. I would think gays would like nothing better than to be accepted into mainstream society just as the Irish eventually were. Really, how are gay Irish-Americans' interests any different than those of straight Irish Americans? How are gay parents' interests any different than those of straight parents? Except that by virtue of their being gay, they are denied certain rights that straights take for granted.

Any gay person would trade their parade banner for those rights.

[Heartland]

I agree with you on the rights aspect, RP. However, I'm looking at this parade business from another angle. If a gay person wants to celebrate their Irish heritage by being a part of this parade, why do they insist on marching as a gay person under that banner instead of just someone of Irish ancestry, like all of the others in the parade?

If they truly want to be mainstream, then why insist on standing out when they could blend in? It appears to me that they do want to set themselves apart, at least for the purposes of this parade. Does that further or hinder their rights cause in the long run? I don't know. I do know that one of the most often-heard complaints from straight people about gay rights groups is that they feel it's being thrown in their faces all the time.

I'll be the first to say that I think much of that complaint is without merit, but I think some of it is accurate. I don't look at strangers and wonder what their sexual preference is ... ever. I don't freak out when I see a gay couple kissing or holding hands. I'm happy that anyone is able to find love in this world. But I also don't see the need to define oneself purely by sexual orientation, and to announce it, either verbally or with a banner every chance one gets. It feels pushy and a little obnoxious to me, sometimes. YMMV, of course.

[foptiludrop]

allowing - disallowing...!??

who the fuck do - "we" - think we are anyway...?

who are we - to disallow - or - to allow - anything...?

Godly, I am so *with* you anymore it's uncanny...

[Renegade Poster]

I agree with you on the rights aspect, RP. However, I'm looking at this parade business from another angle. If a gay person wants to celebrate their Irish heritage by being a part of this parade, why do they insist on marching as a gay person under that banner instead of just someone of Irish ancestry, like all of the others in the parade?

If they truly want to be mainstream, then why insist on standing out when they could blend in?
Heart, I have not kept up with this, and I guess I should do some reading about it. But my guess would be that some gay organizations feel that pushing for visibility might give the message that we are here, that we are a part of every group, that we are not insignificant, and that we are not willing to settle for the raw deal we have been given. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, I guess.

I'm happy that anyone is able to find love in this world. But I also don't see the need to define oneself purely by sexual orientation, and to announce it, either verbally or with a banner every chance one gets.
It's not how I want to define myself, but it seems many others do, and they wish to deprive me of rights based on that definition.

[JavaNoire]

Most parades cater to a wealth of special interest groups. Hell, the very celebration of StPat'sDay could be viewed as a 'separating from the larger group'. A gay group isn't more special (or threatening) than any other of the special interest groups that participate in popular parades. It shouldn't be an issue.

On the Easter egg thing all they wanted to do was participate as everyone else was doing...It was the homophobes that decided a same sex couple & their children openly participating was a 'political statement' Fucking give me a break.

Hell, gay people want to be able to take for granted the same rights heteros enjoy. No more. No less. It's homophobic straights that have politicized & polarized the issue.

[Parklane64]

Possibly this concerns the lifestyles the hopeful future grandparents wish to accentuate to their children watching the parade?

OK, it's probably more diabolical and dastardly than that.......

:rolleyes:

[Heartland]

Java, from what I read, the gay parents who wanted to participate in the Easter Egg Roll at the White House had planned as a group to wear special t-shirts to announce their gay rights agenda. I believe that's where the problem began. It has supposedly always been a non-partisan event.

RP, I'm sure that for many it is a way to say "I'm here and I'm visible and I'm not going anywhere." Most of them would be appropriate and non-confrontational marchers as well, I'm sure. But you know as well as I do that there will be the in-your-face types (which all groups have, not just gays & lesbians) who will be marching the parade in nothing but a thong and a rainbow wig. Those are the ones who hurt the cause -- who hurt any cause, in fact. They don't want to just say "I'm visible" they want to say, "I don't care if you want your kids to enjoy this parade, because I want to show off my package and tight buns."

Sorry, I know that's crass, but just to get it all out on the table, that is, I suspect, what the parade organizers fear the most. I don't think they fear the gay agenda as much as they fear losing their big sponsors and participants should the parade become non-family-friendly.

Again, I have to make the comparison ... what if a group of atheists demanded to march alongside the KKK in one of their parades? Do you believe the KKK should be forced to have atheists in their parade? Or substitute the NAACP or The Jewish Federation for atheists. Or substitute Gay Pride for KKK and Southern Baptists for atheists. Should every group be forced to include every other group in their events, whether they want to or not?

No matter how you feel about the parade, it is the celebration of a Catholic saint's feast day, and the vast majority of marchers are Catholic people. Why does the message, "We don't believe your group is appropriate for this type of parade" have to translate into "You are not wanted in society"? As the title of this thread stated, "a time and a place for everything."

[giiglehoot]

whoa, whoa, hold on here. anyone that has ever read the Landover Baptist website http://www.landoverbaptist.org/ knows that St. Patrick's day is just another excuse for Catholics to get drunk.

"As always, Landover Baptist is well prepared for the demonic onslaught this year. "Saint Patrick's Day is like green beer - something the Lord never intended," says Pastor Deacon Fred. "We always get a little taste of Catholic Hell on this 'so-called' holiday, made popular by Irish layabouts, who seem to think it is a badge of honor to come from an island without snakes – even though it is chock-full of potato-boiling drunks. Fortunately, we have learned enough about Catholics in the past year to gird ourselves in the armor of faith and prepare for the invisible onslaught. For example, thanks to the work of several fearless Baptists who worked spiritual reconnaissance as undercover Sisters of Mercy last year, we now know that St. Patrick's Day is referred to by all members of the Catholic cult as 'Green High Mass.' The "High" is a reference to the opium-laced incense they swing around in a big brass ball until the entire congregation is coughing and screaming like Matthew Perry for one more hit of incense. After several incantations by the priest, the leprechauns usually shilly-shally their way out from under the toadstools they use to mark their little green graves at the front of what the Catholics call their "church." Ignorant folks think that leprechauns look like precocious midgets with a little clay opium pipe, but I've seen scores of them and I'm here to tell you that they all look like hamsters in a cheap suit."

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0301/stpatrick.html


now, if you attend much at Landover Baptist, you will learn that there is a definite connection between homos and catholics.
"SCAM's 500-plus-page report describes the undeniable relationship between Catholicism and sodomy in painstaking, gruesome detail. What is most surprising, however, is the conclusion the investigation generated. "Well, naturally, we were not surprised by the inextricable connection between homosexuality and Catholicism," reported Bowers. "But we had assumed, just like the rest of the world, that there had been no homosexuality before the Roman Catholic "church." All the scholarly journals we had read maintained that the papists invented sodomy, and then posthumously defamed the Greeks, just to shift blame. But once we scratched below the gilded surface of this cult of fairies, we were shocked to find the converse. It seems that Roman Catholics had incorporated preexisting homosexual rituals into the Catholic traditions, like wearing dresses with fabulous, ornamental sashes and keeping catamites. Who knew?"

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0100/investigation.html

so, it just goes to figure them pesky gays are gonna show up on that unholy holiday and use it as an excuse to flaunt themselves and get drunk.

and they're wanting to do the same to easter. yesirree. it started with those faggy pastel colors on the eggs.

" Parents and friends, last year we had a serious problem with many of your children acting like unsaved trash and then expecting to be welcomed in the Lord's finest house outside of Metropolitan Heaven. It was brought to my attention that a whole passel of unsaved, little secular hooligans thought they could spend Easter morning gorging on Cadbury's marshmallow bunnies, looking for hardboiled eggs dipped in homosexually inspired colors and celebrating other godless Pagan traditions. They thought they could then slip on their new white patent leather shoes that mommy bought them and come skipping into our Bible believing church on Easter Sunday morning. It never occurred to these sneaky little Pre-K juvenile delinquents that Jesus is going to want to smack the stuffing out of them one of these days for worshiping a rabbit. "

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0404/easterkids.html

“All True Christians know the Easter Bunny is no different than Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, witches and the like,” noted Pastor Deacon Fred at a hastily convened news conference. “It is a symbol of pagan worship. The rabbit represents extreme fertility which we all know is just a cover for rampant sexual depravity. Pagans and other Satanists have corrupted Christianity for too long by encouraging families to substitute the worship of Christ with the worship of gift-giving Santas or candy-giving rabbits. Sadly, all Christians who give up their faith for pleasures as trivial as egg hunts or baskets filled with candy will descend to Hell for eternity. We vowed 10 years ago to save as many families as we possibly can from this disastrous fate by stamping out such idolatry!”

that beer-guzzling, gay, green-wearing Patrick is just another pagan.

[trouble1957]

I suppose if Islam's had an equivalent to "LandOver" to mock them, some heads would roll.

Literally.

Or somebody's home would suddenly blow up. Or riots across the world would occur.

I suppose LandOver should breathe a bit easier since it's just Christians they mock.

They haven't slowed down one iota from their outrageous beginnings a few years go now.

[kim]

stupid fuck...