Companies Start Docking Pay of Smokers and Obese

[paleryder]

Another sign of the times: You're gonna pay to smoke those cigs and eat those Twinkies.

How long before they go after short people, people who wear glasses, people who stay up and watch late night TV,( You didn't get the mandatory 8 hours sleeep in ) meat eaters, and messageboard addicts( "We know you were reading TRS last night! :1eek2: )

:2gamecock

Firms dock pay of obese, smokers
By Gregory Lopes
August 13, 2007

Companies seeking to cut rising health care costs are starting to dock the pay of overweight and unhealthy workers.

Clarian Health, an Indiana hospital chain, will require workers who smoke to pay $5 out of each paycheck starting in 2009. For workers deemed obese, as much as $30 will be taken out each paycheck until they meet certain weight, cholesterol and blood pressure standards.

Clarian employees will also be required to take part in a health risk appraisal that will inform the company which employees smoke.

Such appraisals are becoming a popular tool for businesses to determine the health of their work force. The type of health benefit program Clarian is setting up could become a model for businesses in coming years, analysts say.



"We anticipate that more employers will require employees to complete a health risk appraisal and participate in screenings," said Tracy Watts, a health benefits consultant for Mercer Human Resource Consulting. "We also are seeing more interest in rewards for healthy behaviors such as participating in health management-related programs and for healthy behaviors such as not using tobacco products."



A survey of nearly 3,000 employers last year by Mercer found that 53 percent required a health risk assessment of its workers. That number is up from 35 percent in 2004.



And 62 percent of the 135 top executives who responded to a PriceWaterhouseCooper's survey this year said their companies should require employees who show unhealthy behaviors to pay a greater share of their health care costs.


Weyco, a Lansing, Mich., benefits administrator, recently adopted a policy to completely eliminate tobacco use from its work force. In 2003, the company introduced a policy of not hiring tobacco users and began offering smoking-cessation programs to employees, who were given a year to quit.

"There are several problems with the current approach," said Jeremy Gruber, legal director for the National Workrights Institute in Princeton, N.J. "The progression of targeting certain groups — first smokers, now overweight people — will allow employers an unlimited amount of information about a person which has nothing to do with how somebody does their job.


"It's clearly discriminatory, as employers ask workers to work longer hours with longer commutes than ever before, to penalize someone because they don't have time to be healthy. It's a huge irony that may run into legal trouble under the Americans with Disabilities Act," Mr. Gruber said.

Rest of the story :

WashingtonTimes (http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070813/BUSINESS/108130052/1001)

[Femme]

This subject was one of the open-phone discussions on C-Span's Washington Journal this morning.

For those (like some of this morning's callers) who think this is a good idea...? Well, tomorrow those with high cholestoral (unhealthy diet?), high blood pressure (stress from work or home?), unhealthy livers (too much alcohol?), etc. may be next.

Why, it could even trickle down to those who brush their teeth with toothpaste made in China. ;)

:1angelica

[Rawbunzel]

If they want to run your life they'd better pony up those good pensions forthe blue collars again.

I am so glad I do not have to work for a big corp that thinks it can tell me what to do in my personal time. What about the CEO that parasails or bungee jumps or scubadives? He [or she] is in as much danger of costing insurance money as any smoker or chubby. Will they start to tell you what you can do for excercise or where you can go on vacation? Will they have to check your house out to be sure you don't have anything unsafe there? How far will they go before people have had enough??

BAH. I hate what is happening here.

[paleryder]

Citing competition, globalization, and shareholder pressures, don't bank on that pay raise to cover much more than inflation, yet alone any fines for being overweight and smoking.


:sm1167:


B]Workers' pay raises won't be much in '08[/B]

Updated 16h 31m ago |

By Stephanie Armour, USA TODAY

Workers hoping for big raises next year are in for disappointment. Employers will be holding the line on pay increases, following a trend of reining in compensation costs to stay competitive.

Employers are planning an overall salary budget increase of 3.9% next year, according to an August survey by WorldatWork, an association of human resource professionals that conducts one of the most comprehensive salary budget surveys. That follows similar modest salary increases of 3.9% in 2007.

The pay raises modestly outpace consumer inflation, which was 2.7% for the 12 months ending in June.

The restrained pay increase poses a challenge for employers who must find other ways to retain and recruit employees, and it's a shift from the early to mid-1990s, when raises were around 5%.

"For people who are doing adjustable-rate mortgages and stretched-out credit cards, this is not good news," says Anne Ruddy, president of WorldatWork. "And on top of it, employees' health care costs have also gone up. Companies are responding to globalization and shareholder pressure."

More here:

USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2007-08-13-pay-raises_N.htm)

[justjg]

Seeing as the economy is about to fall off of a cliff I think most workers should be happy to have jobs.

And those of us that depend on sales to "workers" better hope they keep their jobs too!

[Piinthesky]

Miost employers really don't realize it but they are at the collective mercy of their emplyees and if pissed off bad enough their employees can wreak havoc within their business and cost them dearly in ways they probably hadn't even thought of. I.e., run the water a little longer, use a few more paper towels and or tissues, leave lights on in supply closets and in other areas and how about taking home a few more pens, sticky note books, reams of paper and other office supplies? Those are but a few of the many things that can be done to get revenge but it all adds up and if done collectively can cost an over zealous employer that is hell bent on running his or her employees personal lives, a lot of money.

[kim]

- screw pens stickly notes office supplies etc. just take the whole company...

...(i'm serious)...

p.s. and of course do it collectively...

[paleryder]

I guess some would try to pen and pencil them to death.

Companies shouldn't forget.......one sure fire way to shoot yourself in the foot is to kill company moral. They may already find their hands full penalizing an employee because Olive Oil, one desk over, is fit and trim, and you're not.

Smokers who already weight issues really get the shaft.

If they quit smoking will they gain weight like many do? :1eek2:



Will crash diets lead to stress and cause some to smoke? :1eek2:

Hope this bombs so people don't have to worry about the next shoe that drops. It won't stop if they pull this off.

[sadie999]

Fuck 'em.

Ought to dock the pay of those who've been wearing ties for more than five years. Never met a corporate drone who still had his balls. (No balls = weak man = weakening of the gene pool = not good for the population.)

Ought to dock the pay of those who keep hard workers at 32 hours so they don't have to pay health benefits. (No benefits = sick children = sick adults in the future = weakening of the gene pool = not good for the population.)

Ought to dock the pay of high paid CEOs in companies showing a loss.

Ought to dock the pay of presidunces who send young people off to die on a lie.

Everybody w/an IQ over 120 should get the fuck out of the work force. Let them run it w/mediocre drones. First you get to piss in a cup for the honor of working too many hours for shit pay. Now they pry into your personal life.

To reiterate: Fuck 'em. Fuck 'em hard. And fuck 'em where it hurts the most.

As always:

Peace. :D

[paleryder]

I wonder how Walmart will play their hand on this one.

Do they pro-rate part-timers?

You gross $100, net about $70. Get fined $5.00 for smoking, and $30 for your weight. Take home $35.00. (Bet Exxon gets that $35......)

See, no money left for cigs or food.

That must be the plan! :1chirol_r

:2gamecock

[Phalanx]

Do I smell discrimination?

:1raygun1:

[paleryder]

........and while we're at it, no more CSI for jurors.

We pay damn good money when you serve. Hell, a couple days of jury duty will almost cancel out that thirty dollarfat fine you're getting in this week's paycheck!

:sm1167:



No CSI or 'Law & Order' for Jurors
August 14, 2007 - 9:42am

HAMILTON, Ohio (AP) - Most jurors are told not to read news about their case. Jurors in Butler County can't even look forward to their weekly installment of "CSI."

Common Pleas Judge Patricia Oney tells sitting jurors in this southwest Ohio city they can't watch shows ranging from the "CSI" crime scene investigation shows to the several "Law & Order" series.

Such shows can create unrealistic expectations for jurors such as about what can and cannot be done with evidence, said Oney.

It doesn't matter that "CSI" and "Law & Order" are fictional.
"So many shows now are pulled in part from cases all over the country," Oney said. "I don't want jurors watching them while they are in deliberation."

Defense attorney Melynda Cook-Reich said she agrees with Oney's no-viewing list, "but I think otherwise those shows can be a benefit to make people aware of what kind of testing can be done."

WTOPNEWS (http://www.wtop.com/?nid=456&sid=1218187)

[paleryder]

Rosshow exclusive!

Outside Edition has gained the first inside look at the new health risk appraisal boot camp designed to ferret out smokers and others as companies look for the mean, lean, fighting machine of an employee.

New company slogan........U ken doo eat! :1chirol_c
http://photos.imageevent.com/joseywales/ghosttown/large/capt_xhg80208120834_china_paramilitary_xhg802.jpg

Chinese paramilitary officers leap during warm up for swimming practice in Donghu lake in Wuhan, central China's Hubei province Saturday Aug. 11, 2007. 545 officers took part in the training to hone their water skills, a crucial element during the flood seasons when the paramilitary units play an important role in securing flood embankments and rescuing residents affected by flood. (AP Photo) Sun Aug 12, 4:35 AM ET

:sm1167:

YahooNews (http://fe15.news.re3.yahoo.com/photos?tmpl=index2&cid=702)

[cookiecookie]

I wonder why drinkers are getting a pass on this issue.

[paleryder]

I wonder why drinkers are getting a pass on this issue.

That's just it. Who will be the next target?


Where does it end?

[paleryder]

Remember the first smoking uproar.....No smoking in restaurants, then the bars, then govt buildings, and now one city wants smoking outlawed at a beach.

This takes it up another notch. You can't even smoke at home without a paying a COMPANY tax?

I can see it coming......someone's going to try and associate global warming with smoking.


Will we a have an environmental tax for that too?

:2gamecock

[cookiecookie]

I also don't understand why smaller companies no longer offer just Major Medical. People who aren't chronically ill can usually afford the occassional doctor visit and prescription.

Even companies with only a few employees used to offer Major Medical.

[IceBlueEyes]

Better not count on those pensions either. A relative of mine is a pilot for United. Not only has his income been cut, but the better part of his pension has disappeared. He's out painting people's houses when he not flying, and his wife is cleaning houses so their kids can stay in college.
A steel mill in the area was just sold and the workers were told that their pensions and medical ins. were gone. I have heard some of those employees discussing suicide, in "accidental form" so their houses would be paid off and their families won't end up out on the street. They are worth more dead. It's sad.

[Powerhouse]

Fucking Health-Nazi's are trying to run YOUR life!

Look for future additional sin-taxes on things like condoms and coffee and then eventual bans or workplace penalties on soda, body peirecings, bungee-jumping, etc, etc.

:hazmat:

[evilanggellene]

So the tattoo wearing, ear pierced, obese, chainsmoker who drinks Red Bull like it was water, but still believes in safe sex and ALWAYS wears a condom, will basically be screwed some day?

I don't recommend office bungy jumping for obese people. I don't care how strong they say those ropes are, especially if they happen to be made in China. I really believe the Chinese are trying to kill us secretly with all their defective, lead laden products.

:2slampan:

[Powerhouse]

So the tattoo wearing, ear pierced, obese, chainsmoker who drinks Red Bull like it was water, but still believes in safe sex and ALWAYS wears a condom, will basically be screwed some day?


Basically - everyone will be screwed.
Check out this - getting rid of the "bad" stuff:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070814/ap_on_el_st_lo/prohibition_vote_3
Ala. city considers end to alcohol sales

and taxing the "good" stuff:
http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/local_story_226071318.html
Alderman Wants To Tax Bottled Water
Cardenas: Tax Would Help Balance Budget, Benefit Environment



For the Health-Nazi's I offer you a nice big cup of :stfu: before they outlaw it or tax it out of existence too.

:1evil2:

[Piinthesky]

Pens, pencils, other office supplies, whatever. The point is that there are other, shall we say creative ways to get back at asshole employers.

Alot of employers provide sick pay and if you don't use it, you lose it. well then just go ahead and use it, like even if it's for Monday Flu and you really are just too hungover and/or bloated to come in. You can even just come in a few minutes later each day or cut your productivity by a little bit. I mean if they cut your incentive with pay cuts for BS then why be as productive as they want you to be.

There are many ways to get back at an asshole employer.

I once knew a guy that racked up several thousand dollars in 1-900 phone charges to his employer's business and they never found out it was him but they paid the charges and always wondered who it was, in their company that did that awful thing to them.

[Kandi]

There are many ways to get back at an asshole employer.

I once knew a guy that racked up several thousand dollars in 1-900 phone charges to his employer's business and they never found out it was him but they paid the charges and always wondered who it was, in their company that did that awful thing to them.


First, the best way to get back is to find other employment. If you are a good employee and did an excellent job, the best way for "revenge" is to work elsewhere. They will miss you if you were all that and a bag of chips.

Secondly, nickle and diming a corporation to death won't really make any big dents and will get noticed and get you fired. Do you want stealing on your record as an employee? It will keep you from getting Unemployment Compensation Benefits.

Third, most corporations today can and do track your phone calls and internet usage. Not only do they know who called where, but how long, etc. Most companies also know every web page you visit and how long you stayed at it and the time of day you visited. Most web pages that would cause problems in a work place are blocked. The phone system in a decent sized business can be programmed as well where you would not be allowed to dial 1-900 number.

Again, the best way to get back at corporate America is to take your services elsewhere if, IF, you are that good. Otherwise...just do your job.

As a recruiter for a law firm, I can tell you that if you came in with visible tattoos and/or piercings you would not get past the interview process. Those things are written into the personnel policy. I can also tell you, as a supervisor, it's a pain in the bootie to worry about people out "smoking" half the day away. You can't be assured they'll clock out every time they take a smoke break. Non-smokers tend to be more productive, overall.

I do NOT advocate employers having a say in what you do in your off time though, except when it comes to recreational drug use. If I have a policy against it, then I expect it not to occur.

I've seen companies as small as 5 employees have health insurance, but you had to pay your own from your paycheck...at least it was offered. I am strongly against HMOs but just as strongly opposed to social medicine. There has to be a better way to manage health care.

I can also tell you that if there is a catastrophic illness within your employee group or if there are a large amount of chronically ill people, insurance costs do go up to spread the risks. They go up for everybody, not just the persons ill. Is it fair to make other employees who are healthy pay higher costs for insurance to help you stay covered? Doesn't seem fair to me. Again, there has to be a better way to manage health care in the US. I'll be damned if I would know how to do it though or even offer suggestions.

[Femme]

First, the best way to get back is to find other employment. If you are a good employee and did an excellent job, the best way for "revenge" is to work elsewhere. They will miss you if you were all that and a bag of chips.


You may get personal satisfaction; however, everyone is expendable is the mindset of today's workplace, and has been that way for years. There is someone else to take that vacant position.

Is it fair to make other employees who are healthy pay higher costs for insurance to help you stay covered?

The "healthy" may be that way today, but that could change tomorrow. In a heartbeat, the shoe could be on the other foot.

[Bastet]

Is it fair to make other employees who are healthy pay higher costs for insurance to help you stay covered?

So are you proposing that someone who becomes ill should be fired or taken off the insurance to prevent the premiums from going up? Wouldn't that make having insurance a moot point? OK, I have insurance, but if I get sick and need it, I should be kicked off the insurance?

[Powerhouse]

So are you proposing that someone who becomes ill should be fired or taken off the insurance to prevent the premiums from going up? Wouldn't that make having insurance a moot point? OK, I have insurance, but if I get sick and need it, I should be kicked off the insurance?

Why not? That's the same way auto insurance works.

(One auto insurer now says they will not penalize or drop you for a claim, but that is a recent and limited offer)

[Bastet]

Why not? That's the same way auto insurance works.

Does that make it right? Besides car insurance is a whole other issue. You can always get other car insurance (unless you are a lousy driver and get in lots of accidents). I can survive without a car, but I may not survive a catastrophic illness without medical treatment.

[Kandi]

No I don't think you should be fired for "using" your insurance. That's what it's there for. However, I can assure you corporate America will look for a way to rid themselves of you. Think about it...if you're sick, you're using your insurance. Costs are going up for the company. You're absent and using your sick pay. As mentioned earlier...we are all expendable. Easily replaced.

Just because you have sick pay doesn't mean you can use it without recourse. I can tell you. I was injured at work. I was taken off work a second time by physicians for the work comp injury. Physicians, I might add that were approved by the employer and the work comp insurance carrier. They fired me for absenteeism due to illness. Sue them you say? Right...they were attorneys. One of the largest firms in Florida, if not the largest (don't know where they stand today). It's rare to find an attorney who's willing to sue another attorney...particularly large powerful law firms.

Oh and as an aside...I was their person who hired and fired...their personnel manager. I fired each and every person I was asked to fire in person, professionally. They fired me by email.

[Kandi]

Ah, but see, insurance companies are in the business to make money. Not take care of us.

The whole health care issue is riddled with problems...beginning with health care providers and ending with attorneys who entice people to sue...which leads back to insurance (malpractice).

I can tell you, for instance, say you have a person who breaks their leg and has their own personal insurance. The health care provider charges, let's say, $200 for that broken leg. This is your first scenario.

Second scenario, you break your leg at work and are covered under worker's comp. That same physician who treated your first patient for $200, will charge $300 for this injury, because he can.

Third scenario, you have a person who breaks their leg and has no insurance available....that same physician who treated your first patient for $200, your second for $300 will charge you, with no insurance, $500!

[Bastet]

Just because you have sick pay doesn't mean you can use it without recourse.

Sick pay and insurance are two different issues. I don't think you should be paid for extended absences. At my last corporate job, we had 40 hours of paid sick leave as part of our benefits. After that you were on your own. If your are very ill, you go on disability. In CA we have disability that is deducted from our pay, then if we are sick for an extended period, we get state disability.

[kim]

sticky notes / pens / get creative / blah blah blah blah...

go work for somebody else...?

remain a slave in other words...

- be really creative create your own company with all the other slaves with your own med coverage too sheesh can people just freaking not stop thinking like slaves...

p.s you think somebody else is going to free you...???

[paleryder]

:sm1194: I'm going to work for you.

I want a desk with my own microwave and a big ash tray.

:sm1167:

[Piinthesky]

the best way to get back is to find other employment.

Try appending to that; and take your cigarettes and waddle on over to another company and see what happens there.

Secondly, nickle and diming a corporation to death won't really make any big dents and will get noticed and get you fired. Do you want stealing on your record as an employee? It will keep you from getting Unemployment Compensation Benefits.

Al Bundy sez; it's not stealing if you don't get caught. Again the point is that there are many ways to get back at an asshole employer and if you put your noodle to work you can figure it out and come up with some creative ways to accomplish that and get some good revenge and maybe have a little fun too, at your employer's expense or at least have a good laugh.

[Hepburn]

Personally, I think stealing from your employer is about as bad as them wanting to charge you because you smoke or are too fat.

[Kandi]

Try appending to that; and take your cigarettes and waddle on over to another company and see what happens there.

Other than the fact that I'm disabled...I really wouldn't have a problem moving onto another employer. I don't smoke (never have) and I'm not obese. Nothing against those who do smoke or may be obese. I was just stating my case as it applied to me as to finding other employment. I would not feel good about myself if I stole from my employer. I care about my reputation and my soul.

[foptiludrop]

The better half of me resonates with Kim's eschew the entire system advice; the informed half of me -- the one that reads history and memoirs -- wants to shout, "Don't you see (-recognize) what this is? -this 'criminalization' of certain elements of society?"

And then I just sit back, and notice how effortlessly "nice" people are duped into a round-up mentality...

[Piinthesky]

I see that now, Blues and my posts were to all employees, not just what I would do.

I care about my reputation too, however, if an employer steals from me, he or she had better watch out because I won't allow them to get away with it. In other words I will have back my pound of flesh, wrongly taken from me.

[RunFaYaLife]

Citing competition, globalization, and shareholder pressures, don't bank on that pay raise to cover much more than inflation, yet alone any fines for being overweight and smoking.

So much for America Home of the FREE......eh?

Personally I am sick of this media driven PC mass hypnosis that our government is attempting to shove down our throats to lure the "sheep" into submission OR else...."we will penalize your ass to control you".

Hell if you want to be a fat, chain smoking pig, that never does any excerise other than click the remote .....it should be YOUR OWN damn business!

The real reason they have stepped this mass hysteria up to the degree it is
is because of the bottom line MONEY.
They are scared shitless of the boomer's and what it might cost them.
Well screw that......they have had YEARS to figure it out.

They have had years to figure out a lot of things that they chose to look the other way on...that most thinking American's have known for years.

Like Global warming....oil consumption...health care........the damage and addictive properties of cigarettes......the looming BOOMER g-g-generation.

Instead of planning ahead they chose to look the other way......why?

GREED and MONEY.

I will never conform to what "they" tell me to do....unless I CHOOSE to do so.


It reminds of of
"coffees bad for you.......coffees good for you"
"sugar is bad for you...chocolate is good for you"
and that is just two examples for the bullshit they spew.

I'm sick of picking up the tab for our lazy ass slacker government/politicians and that idiotic moron BushCo.

Hell now they have a hell of a war to pay for....our country is in the toliet.

So our government is doing what they do best.....tax us to death some more.

LITERALLY.

They could give a rats ass about YOU, your health, your sons and daughters OR your retirement.

they ONLY thing they care about
and want
is YOUR money.

[larruone]

Just take the money out of your own, your family and friends' pockets
instead of stealing from or increasing costs at your job.

Ain't a damn penny in cost that won't get passed on to the
end consumer.... you.


Kinda like why insurance and health costs are so high now.

[agogoboots]

and notice how effortlessly "nice" people are duped into a round-up mentality

that our government is attempting to shove down our throats to lure the "sheep" into submission


His analysis makes further telling points about the American worker and the American consumer. Like nowhere else, he says "workers in America live in a constant state of panic, a panic against being left out, they know that companies owe them nothing, there is no power to appeal to for management's decisions. Fear is our secret supercharger, it gives management the flexibility other nations will never have".
http://4brevard.com/choice/Public_Education.htm

See also:

http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html?seenIEPage=1

Dumbing Us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling By Gatto, John Taylor

The Underground History of American Education by Gatto, John Taylor

[justjg]

Hell if you want to be a fat, chain smoking pig, that never does any excerise other than click the remote .....it should be YOUR OWN damn business!

Let's hold on for a second.

If I'm an employer and I interview somebody and during the interview the person shares that they are in fact a fat chain smoking pig that never does any excercise I can't tell them I won't hire them based on that. That would be breaking of the law.

Even worse, I hire someone who becomes a fat, chainsmoking pig. I cannot let them go for that legally either.

What honus is on the employee to make some attempt to maintain some sort of condition in relation to employment especially in trades which require physical work?

[justjg]

Furthermore, I live in Canada where we have socialized medicine. We have no cap currently on service rendered to people. I'm not even advocating that we should, but it seems retarded to be paying that amount it costs to support self-destructive habits.

I mean if someone has an addiction or hobby and they try and address it then of course society should attempt to help them; but if the person just doesn't care and abuses these benefits shouldn't there be some sort of treatment of these abuses at a medical level?

[Lukeiamyourfather]

Miost employers really don't realize it but they are at the collective mercy of their emplyees and if pissed off bad enough their employees can wreak havoc within their business and cost them dearly in ways they probably hadn't even thought of. I.e., run the water a little longer, use a few more paper towels and or tissues, leave lights on in supply closets and in other areas and how about taking home a few more pens, sticky note books, reams of paper and other office supplies? Those are but a few of the many things that can be done to get revenge but it all adds up and if done collectively can cost an over zealous employer that is hell bent on running his or her employees personal lives, a lot of money.

That has to be experience talking, you stupid sad fuck. You have obviously put a lot of thinking into your paragraph of stupidity there. In fact, I would say you must have perpetrated many of those suggestions yourself. I guess
7 bucks an hour can do that to a guy.

There are cameras everywhere in most companies. As usual, you are running your mouth out of your ass. Thankfully, most people are honest, and not as bitter as you obviously have been as an employee.

How many ketchup and mustard packets have you stolen from work this year? I know, plastic knives and forks must be piled up to the ceiling in your shit lair.

[SneakyDave]

There are many ways to get back at an asshole employer.


That's really stupid, and there are thousands of other employees willing to replace your function as an idiot, from outsourcing to honest employees.

[SneakyDave]

I didn't even read Idiotinthesky's last comment until now...

I once knew a guy that racked up several thousand dollars in 1-900 phone charges to his employer's business and they never found out it was him but they paid the charges and always wondered who it was, in their company that did that awful thing to them.


Yeah, me too, a close friend, but he got caught, got fired, got docked in pay for the calls, had to pay the rest back, and was chastised by coworkers.

Now, I'm sure in a McJob you could get away with it once in a while, but it always comes back to you eventually. When your prospective next employer asks you "Why did you get fired?", you'd be lying to say that it was the company's fault.

I don't smoke, but one company I worked for had a no smoking policy on their entire property, inside and outside, you had to walk across a hiway to a convenience store to smoke, I was amazed at the number of people that did it in the winter.

Anyway, that company always asks potential employees "We have a non-smoking policy on all of our property, do you have any questions about it?", but they can't ask you if you smoke.

[Lukeiamyourfather]

He's obviously referring to himself.

I see these kind of morons, some end up employed a long time. Others, thankfully, get the balls handed to them in short order. With technology being what it is nowadays, dinosaurs like Fuckstickinthesky don't have a snowballs chance in hell of getting away with the crap they did in the seventies, which is what he is talking about.

That steaming pile of shit wouldn't last a day working for me, or anyone who has minimal performance standards.

:1apileoff

[Bastet]

Insurance companies also increase premiums due to the age of the workers at a company. The more people you have over 40, the higher the premiums. So, should we also start to fine people for being over 40 and trying to make a living?

Some companies are instituting policies where they make it easier for their employees to make positive changes in their health status. For example, they offer stop smoking seminars, or discount gym memberships, some even have exercise classes on site to make it convenient. I really think this is the way to go. Everyone benefits. Companies have healthier workers, lower insurance rates, etc. Employees are healthier and feel supported by their bosses rather than penalized. Works for me. :1chirol_c

Dusa, I love your answer....beat the system by circumventing it. I think it takes more "balls" than I have to do it though.

[Femme]

...there are thousands of other employees willing to replace your function as an idiot...

:1rotfl2:

[Kandi]

My daughter-in-law works for such a company. They give incentives to lose weight or quit smoking, i.e., bonuses. They have on-site weight loss programs, meetings, physicians, exercise facilities, etc. It would be great if all companies could do this, but I don't see it happening. First, this is a very wealthy company she works for and it's in the top 10 of Fortune 500 companies.

In my husband's company, if they started penalizing employees for being over 40, they'd have no employees. It seems to be a more "senior" workforce within their line of business.

[Piinthesky]

Yeah, me too, a close friend, but he got caught, got fired, got docked in pay for the calls, had to pay the rest back, and was chastised by coworkers.

LOL, I said that I knew a guy, not that I was close friends with him. Well of course your friend got caught, Stinkydave and it makes me wonder just what sort of people you hang with, what sort of friends you have and how dumb they are to get caught doing something like that. Just tell me one thing, at the time when he was caught did he stupidly try to put the blame on his friend by telling them that it was his friend Dave's idea.

[QUOTE=Ipukedupadick;166211]That steaming pile of shit wouldn't last a day working for me, or anyone who has minimal performance standards./QUOTE]

Since you're so good at running your mouth, why don't you tell us all exactly what sort of business an idiot like you could run.

[marble]

When your prospective next employer asks you "Why did you get fired?", ...

Of course, your prospective next employer is only going to ask you that if you are stupid enough to tell them that you got fired.

[Jasmine]

You usually have to provide your prospective employer with the info of your last employer and hope they don't check with them.

[Piinthesky]

Hey puke, judging by your fascination with shit, i'd say that your business has something to do with manure and judging by your obvious lack of reading comprehension, i'd say that it has to be something easy for you like counting manure trucks. Tell me, when it gets close to 10 do you take off your shoes and if it does go past 10 do you then take off your socks and what happens if it goes past 20, do you drop your pants??

Here play with this and see if you can learn anything from it :1apileoff

[Hepburn]

There is truly something assinine about doing petty stuff like stealing, making phone calls, and other chickenshit things to your employer to "get back" at them.

:rolleyes:

[Lukeiamyourfather]

Hey puke, judging by your fascination with shit, i'd say that your business has something to do with manure and judging by your obvious lack of reading comprehension, i'd say that it has to be something easy for you like counting manure trucks. Tell me, when it gets close to 10 do you take off your shoes and if it does go past 10 do you then take off your socks and what happens if it goes past 20, do you drop your pants??

Here play with this and see if you can learn anything from it :1apileoff

You're stunned. Now you want to dumb down the word "fascination". While that is perhaps momentarily entertaining, it tells the tale of someone caught in a fucking time warp. At least you got, "shit I'd say" right.

You wrote the "how to" as it refers to tactical petty theft and hijinks of the bitter ex-employee. You posted it here, you boasted it here. Anyone reading that screed would know damn well that the author had to have done the things so described.

You're outed numbnuts. Face the music. Admit it, you've done it, and you'll do it again.

You might just as well tatoo "petty", and "bitter" to your ample forehead fuckstick.

You spelled it all out, I just typed the words back for you to see.

You're a dinasaur. The overwhelming majority of people I know simply don't have their hands on a bar that close to the ground. You on the other hand, well, 'nuff said.

Thankfully, most people value their paycheck more than a fucking pencil, idiot.

[Lukeiamyourfather]

There is truly something assinine about doing petty stuff like stealing, making phone calls, and other chickenshit things to your employer to "get back" at them.

:rolleyes:

Well, the desperate tactics of an individual with no other options, that is the name of that tune.

My guess is that it must be a helluva place to wind up in middle age. Stealing pencils, running water, yeah, that's the ticket. I shore 'nuff fixed them.

:1JerryJer

[Hepburn]

Stealing pencils, running water, yeah, that's the ticket. I shore 'nuff fixed them.

I know its not really funny, but it is if you visualize it.:1chirol_r

[Piinthesky]

They were all merely suggestions and yet most people do steal from their employers, some maybe not intentionaly and some intentionaly.

I suppose if an employer treats you unfairly you just turn the other cheek and figure, oh well that's how business is run and you let them walk all over you and get away with it.

Come on puke, without projecting, tell us all what sort of business a piece of crap like you can possibly be in. Or do you have a fake business like hep?

Uh oh, now hep is gonna chin her way in and turn this around and make this thread all about her, like she does with every thread here and everywhere she posts at.

[Hepburn]

You can TRY to make this all about me, Pi, if you like. Whatever floats your boat. But no. I have never stolen from an employer. And I wouldnt no matter how badly they treated me. I would just quit. But thats me.

I find it quite telling that you are stating that "most" would steal, which means YOU would do what you are saying "most" do. Project much?

You are childish. And petty. And vindictive. And not very intelligent. It shows in every post you have made in this thread. So no. It isnt about me, Pi. Its all about you.

[Lukeiamyourfather]

They were all merely suggestions and yet most people do steal from their employers, some maybe not intentionaly and some intentionaly.

I suppose if an employer treats you unfairly you just turn the other cheek and figure, oh well that's how business is run and you let them walk all over you and get away with it.

Come on puke, without projecting, tell us all what sort of business a piece of crap like you can possibly be in. Or do you have a fake business like hep?

Uh oh, now hep is gonna chin her way in and turn this around and make this thread all about her, like she does with every thread here and everywhere she posts at.


Man Square Peg, you just aren't getting it. You're outed. You're a thief. You advocate, or "suggest" stealing. That sort of post might get you high fives, and oooohs and awwws over at The Assholeum, but you won't find them at other places. Get your "big boy" keyboard out, try and keep up.

Everywhere you go, well fuck, there you are. I understand that has got to be getting old for you on a personal level.

"Some maybe not intentionally". How many ketchup packets did you accidentally put in your shirt pocket last tonight before you left your place of work? Oh well, at least you don't have to worry about breakfast, imbecile.


Quick definitions (imbecile)

# noun: a person of subnormal intelligence
# adjective: having a mental age of three to seven years

:1apileoff

[Bastet]

So, anyway, should companies be allowed to dock workers who smoke or are obese? If the answer is yes, can we think of any other reasons to dock employees? Age, fast food habits, eating meat?

Oh I know one....maybe we could dock people who don't eat dark chocolate. Anyone who eats milk chocolate, ten bucks!

[SneakyDave]

They were all merely suggestions and yet most people do steal from their employers, some maybe not intentionaly and some intentionaly


It looks like you just had a beat down Fucktardinthesky, is there where you claim your "grand experiment" is taking a hiatus?

[Kandi]

In keeping with the topic, no. I do not think workers should be docked for obesity or smoking. I think they should be given incentives for weight loss and the cessation of smoking. Morale should always be key in keeping a happy, productive workforce.

[paleryder]

In keeping with the topic, no. I do not think workers should be docked for obesity or smoking. I think they should be given incentives for weight loss and the cessation of smoking. Morale should always be key in keeping a happy, productive workforce.

That would be a more uplifting and logical approach, but that would cost the company more money. In that I believe this is really about more money for the companies bottom line, don't hold your breath.

:sm1167:

[RunFaYaLife]

Absolutely.

[Kandi]

Well, like I already said, there are companies who do just that. It would be nice if more companies would do it and show that they value their employees.

[Piinthesky]

Hey puke, you ever consider adding anything to a conversation, rather than just posting attacks? Why don't you go back to your board of hate and take the hepster with you. She all of a sudden believes you all are very lovely and nice people and that shows how stupid she is and wants us all to be.

Uh oh, now they're gonna talk for days on end over there about how i'm slagging them some more and they'll create more siglines using my words to show their displeasure at my pointing out how hateful they all are.

As far as claiming to never steal from an employer....what a fucking lie that is from a bunch of hepocrits. Your chins are gonna grow bigger now, you'd better watch out.

[Jasmine]

<sigh>

[Lukeiamyourfather]

Hey puke, you ever consider adding anything to a conversation, rather than just posting attacks? Why don't you go back to your board of hate and take the hepster with you. She all of a sudden believes you all are very lovely and nice people and that shows how stupid she is and wants us all to be.

Uh oh, now they're gonna talk for days on end over there about how i'm slagging them some more and they'll create more siglines using my words to show their displeasure at my pointing out how hateful they all are.

As far as claiming to never steal from an employer....what a fucking lie that is from a bunch of hepocrits. Your chins are gonna grow bigger now, you'd better watch out.

It is what it is, you are what you are. You hijacked a great thread, tried to make it about how incredibly witty you are, outed yourself as a petty thief, and bitter ex employee. This was pointed out to you, you wimper, whine, rinse, and repeat.

In fact, I see you've taken it a step further, to as much as label anyone here who doesn't steal ketchup and mustard packets as liars. Believe it or not Pakeinthesky, many people enjoy a productive workplace, fast paced, challenging, and rewarding. Not everyone is stuck in some dead end shithole, where they feel their only course of action is to flush the toilet and extra time or two, and shove a pencil up their ass to sneak past the guard.
Could it be that you cannot comprehend a world where people give a days work for a days pay, called it even, and get on with life? Methinks so.

Meanwhile the thread grows, with more excellent commentary, while you, true to form, look like the fucking petty and bitter moron that you are. Well done. Anyway, I'm done with you now. You can go home. :1apileoff

[Moky]

Wales, your opinion sucks really...:sm1167:

That would be a more uplifting and logical approach, but that would cost the company more money. In that I believe this is really about more money for the companies bottom line, don't hold your breath.

:1both:

[puzzlegoddess]

I thought he was just stating the obvious, myself.

[justjg]

Hep why are you using such an obvious sock?

[Hepburn]

Jammie, why are you such an idiot?

[mivona]

This is just a different kind of health rationing - a capitalist version that still doesn't address the cost of provision of health services, but rather the cost of those who use the services. I am torn on this as an approach, because I think it would actually make Americans begin to question the whole system of health care that they have.

Those that bitch and moan about the idea of socialised medicine - providing a national health care system - because of the perceived deficiencies in such provision seem incapable of addressing the clear inequities that the American system has. It has the best care that money can buy - but only if you have the money... It reminds me of the belief in American freedom too - you are utterly free, as long as you don't question too much what "free" actually means, or perhaps you are really "free" as long as you conform to expectations of behaviour, belief, etc.

Socialised medicine definitely has health rationing, and as much as I dislike the idea of anyone suffering or dying as a consequence of such rationing, it is a fact. People live, people get ill and people die. It happens, and we cannot prevent it. We have the means of forestalling some illnesses, curing some and we can sometimes gain people time (sometimes a great deal of time) before their inevitable deaths. But, as a society, we do not have the means or the willingness to pay unlimited amounts for the health of everyone.

For us, this means that sometimes there are delays in obtaining treatments, though this is supposed to be restricted to only those illnesses that are not life-threatening. This means that some people have periods of pain that they could have avoided if treatment was more readily available. It also means that the newest treatments may not always be available, at least until they have proven efficacy and cost-effectiveness. A treatment that will cost thousands of pounds that will obtain a 70-year-old an extra year is unlikely to be used. A treatment of similar cost that will give a child a fair chance of a cure will be preferred. At an individual level, it is heart-breaking to have to make such choices. At a social level, it is a rational use of resources.

The rationing done in America has no such rationality. If you are lucky enough to obtain a job with health insurance, or have a salary that can buy you the cover, you have a greater chance of survival of ill health than others - no matter whether the money put into your care will cure you, or simply gain you a few weeks of extra life. If you are 25-year old single parent, in a low-paid job and need a kidney transplant and lifelong drugs to keep you alive, you won't get the same care and attention as a 75-year old retired corporate drone. I think that is obscene, but what do I know?

Perhaps a better question would be to ask why there are so many unhealthily obese Americans, or why so many persist in smoking? What is it in the American way of life that makes so many people so obese? What is it in their relationship with food that has become so dysfunctional, and what does their working life have to contribute to that dysfunctionality?

Working hours that are far too long and the need for two salaries to survive means that there is little time for food acquisition and preparation. Ready meals, packed with additional calories from processing... lack of fresh foods due to the supply chain... a disconnect with raw foods and how to cook them... restaurants with portions that are far too large, simply so that they are seen as "good value"...

It sucks.

[paleryder]

The rationing done in America has no such rationality. If you are lucky enough to obtain a job with health insurance, or have a salary that can buy you the cover, you have a greater chance of survival of ill health than others - no matter whether the money put into your care will cure you, or simply gain you a few weeks of extra life. If you are 25-year old single parent, in a low-paid job and need a kidney transplant and lifelong drugs to keep you alive, you won't get the same care and attention as a 75-year old retired corporate drone. I think that is obscene, but what do I know?

It's a twisted triage system where the ability to pay is the major concern of the shareholders. They should do away with the pretense and call it what it really is... Wealth Care management.

:sm1167:

[paleryder]

These new rules supposedly prevent the hospital from billing the patient for these mistakes, but does anybody really believe that?

It's a business, and they will adjust accordingly like a business by raising the rates on everything. The end result is Medicare saves, health care plans will increase, hospital costs will increase, and in the end, the consumer pays more........ and still gets screwed.

That $12 aspirin you get while in there with probably just shot up to $20/$25.

:sm1167:


Medicare Won't Cover Hospital Mistakes
New Rules Aimed at Promoting Better Hospital Care and Safety


By LIZ MARLANTES
Aug. 19, 2007

Share Starting next year, if a surgeon leaves an instrument inside a patient, Medicare won't cover the cost of fixing that mistake.

Under new rules issued in the beginning of August, Medicare will no longer pay for the costs of what it considers "preventable" conditions acquired in the hospital. These include everything from certain types of hospital-acquired infections, to patients who are given transfusions with the wrong blood type, to bed sores.


Instead, the hospitals themselves will have to cover these costs (since the rules also prevent them from billing the patient).

Consumer advocates believe the change will give hospitals a much stronger incentive to try to prevent those mistakes in the first place.

"Every year, millions of Americans suffer needlessly from preventable hospital infections and medical errors," said Lisa McGiffert, director of Consumers Union's Stop Hospital Infections campaign, in a statement.

"These new rules are a good beginning for Medicare to use its clout to mobilize hospitals to improve care and keep patients safe."

The biggest impact could be on hospitals' efforts to prevent infections.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that 2 million patients get hospital infections each year, at a cost of more than $27 billion. Nearly 100,000 of those infections are fatal.

According to McGiffert, many of these could be prevented if hospitals did a better job of following simple infection control procedures, including having doctors and nurses wash their hands between every patient.

The new rules will also save taxpayers millions of dollars each year, according to Jeff Nelligan, a spokesman for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. "If you increase the quality [of care], it's not only better for the beneficiary, it's better for the taxpayer," he said.

Medicare provides health coverage for 43 million elderly and disabled Americans. The program's expenses totaled over $400 billion in 2006, but those figures are expected to balloon in coming years as the baby boom generation ages.

Nelligan cast the new rules as part of a larger shift toward making Medicare more efficient. Medicare is "becoming an active purchaser, not just a passive payer," he said.

abcnews (http://www.abcnews.go.com/WN/story?id=3499053)

[Hepburn]

Do you sell pretty flowers and dance in the moonlight because not only are you fat with huge jowls, you are also a princess? Princess Wales. It fits. When you unload a truck full of daisies and geraniums, do you chip your nail polish?

[Jasmine]

Hep~

What does that have to do with this topic?

[Hepburn]

Absolutely nothing, Jasmine. So Ill ask the same question of you....

What does any thread I happen to participate in have to do with Wales constantly butting in to jab at me? Where are you then, Jasmine? Huh?

Save it. Youve already shown exactly which fucktard tier you think both of us are on.

[Jasmine]

I must be missing something, because I don't see the jab. It looks like your responses are coming from out of nowhere.

[Hepburn]

Then you need to pay closer attention, dontcha?:1chirol_r

[Pestolentz]

I must be missing something, because I don't see the jab. It looks like your responses are coming from out of nowhere.

You're correct. There was no jab, at least not in this thread, for Hepburn's comments were out of any context. It appears that Hepburn is in the PMS (pre-meltdown syndrome) of her normal cycle, and about to make a globby puddle out of herself before she ultimately manifestos--with blanket vulgarity, but always amusing--for another 5 minutes. This time, the early meltdown includes a foray into some offensive hate speech (calling Paleryder a "fag") and some earnest stalking. Maybe she's bucking for her own room again. It's obvious that she can't control herself, so maybe it's an appeal for someone else to control her.

[Jasmine]

Are you a fat smoker, is that the problem? Do you think every post in this thread that refers to fat smokers is directed at you?

What you don't get is that your posts that I have questioned make you look like an idiot when people like me don't see the trigger. I don't look like the idiot, you do. So, take a deep breath, and explain it to me, or the alternative is that you are gonna look like a complete idiot when you make these posts that seem to come out of the blue.

It's not that I don't like you , like you, want to stalk you, don't want to stalk you, whatever. If you want to look like a complete idiot to me, then don't bother to explain. I'm not looking and analyzing every post in this thread to see why you posted as you did, I'm asking you outright. Why did you post as you did?

[Rawbunzel]

Honestly Hep, take a look at what you are doing. You are in this thread doing exactly what you just told me others do to LK over at Vendio.PR has not even addressed you that I can see and here you are attacking him in a thread that is an interesting topic.

[Jasmine]

My bad, I'm looking for logic where there is none. Sorry for not following the rules.

[Piinthesky]

Maybe she's bucking for her own room again. It's obvious that she can't control herself, so maybe it's an appeal for someone else to control her.

Shhhhh, it's almost a done deal, don't go and blow it now. I suppose all she has left to do now is to try and garner as many over to her board as she can before the inevitable happens here.

[Hepburn]

No particular trigger, Jasmine. I just CHOOSE to do to him what he always does to me. Just because you dont "see" it doesnt mean it hasnt happened. The FFoW could tell you that if they CHOOSE to. Choice. I choose to do unto Fag what he has done to me. Period. When he stops, I stop. Until then, Princess will be my bitch. He makes a good one, flabby jowls and Karl Malden nose in all.

[Hepburn]

Shhhhh, it's almost a done deal, don't go and blow it now. I suppose all she has left to do now is to try and garner as many over to her board as she can before the inevitable happens here.

Poor Pi. Still trying to fit in? If my board was so bad, why did you keep coming in and I keep having to ban your sorry ass? :1chirol_r

Maybe Ross will let you back in the ladies forum, from whence you were banned? Ya think?

[Piinthesky]

You banned me once. I don't do what you and others that you have aligned yourself with choose to do by creating more and more user ID's to try to fool others with. How many have you, do you have?

[RunFaYaLife]

Okay then.

[It's a twisted triage system where the ability to pay is the major concern of the shareholders. They should do away with the pretense and call it what it really is...

"Wealth Care management."]

I actually thought this was an excellent title to replace what we currently call our play health care system.


I also found that article that PR posted verrra telling.
http://www.therossshow.com/showthread.php?t=8199&page=4

Especially considering that the main Hospital's in our area are trying to drop Blue Cross Blue Shield as we speak.
Friggin' money grubbing WORMS.

American's will be flying out of here in droves to get health care in Brazil and Sweden etc.

[Hepburn]

Um, Pi? I dont have socks. Dont need them. I also dont steal mustard or catsup packages to get even with my boss, either.:1chirol_r

[Piinthesky]

Uh ya, you just shit on the kitchen floor and then you smile about it and think it's sexy.

[Lukeiamyourfather]

Uh ya, you just shit on the kitchen floor and then you smile about it and think it's sexy.

You see this here? This is why you can't fit in anywhere fuckstick. A person reads that, and they think, "what the fuck kind of whacked out loser thinks like that?". That would be you Square Peg.

Incredible, really. Keep trying though, you never can tell when you might actually touch the clit, although I'm sure it's been a life's frustration for you.

:1apileoff

[Piinthesky]

Keep trying though, you never can tell when you might actually touch the clit,

Now why would I or anyone ever wanna touch you?

[paleryder]

From a thread at Ghost Town

What a sad story this is....

Police: Man Threw Ill Wife From Balcony
August 16, 2007 - 1:46am

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) - A man threw his seriously ill wife four stories to her death because he could no longer afford to pay for her medical care, prosecutors said in charging him with second-degree murder.

According to court documents filed Wednesday in Jackson County Circuit Court, Stanley Reimer walked his wife to the balcony of their apartment and kissed her before throwing her over.

The body of Criste Reimer, 47, was found Tuesday night outside the apartment building, near the upscale Country Club Plaza shopping district.

Stanley Reimer, 51, was charged Wednesday. He remained jailed on $250,000 bond and was scheduled to be arraigned Thursday.

In the probable cause statement filed with the charges, police said Reimer was desperate because he could not pay the bills for his wife's treatment for neurological problems and uterine cancer.

Investigators said that Reimer was in the apartment when they arrived. He told them, "She didn't jump," but did not elaborate, they said.

Criste Reimer's caregiver told police she could barely walk and would not have been able to climb over the railing of the balcony, according to the probable cause statement.

Reimer's alleged motive emerged after several more hours of questioning, police said.

According to Jackson County Probate Court records, Criste Reimer had been in ill health for several years. Her weight had fallen to 75 pounds and she was partly blind.

According to the court records, she had no health insurance to pay for medical bills that ranged from $700 to $800 per week.

The Probate Court documents were filed in April, when Stanley Reimer petitioned to be allowed to sell personal property his wife owned in Wheeler County, Texas, for $20,000.

The documents listed her assets at approximately $6,700, with monthly income of $725 from oil royalties and Supplemental Security Income.

It was not immediately known if Stanley Reimer had an attorney.

WTOPNEWS (http://www.wtop.com/?nid=104&sid=1222037)

[Jasmine]

No particular trigger, Jasmine. I just CHOOSE to do to him what he always does to me. Just because you dont "see" it doesnt mean it hasnt happened. The FFoW could tell you that if they CHOOSE to. Choice. I choose to do unto Fag what he has done to me. Period. When he stops, I stop. Until then, Princess will be my bitch. He makes a good one, flabby jowls and Karl Malden nose in all.

Then, I guess, you are choosing to make yourself look like a complete idiot.

[Lukeiamyourfather]

You banned me once. I don't do what you and others that you have aligned yourself with choose to do by creating more and more user ID's to try to fool others with. How many have you, do you have?

You know Square Pig, you go after Hep here now, bashing her, right left and center, even though previously, you, and your little bone smoking buddy Doc the Soc worshipped the fucking bandwidth she walked on.

Don't forget your now legendary fantasy Square Pig, it was a classic, and enjoyed by many. For those who may have missed it, here it is, for Auld Lang Syne, imbecile.



I really think Pi was "chick whispering" Hep "jay leno" burn.

Pi, in some ill conceived fantasy/reality brain cramp, saw himself out in Californee, with Hep, helpin her run the store, making lots of money "and such", and helping the struggling Hepburn back to her much ballyhooed, legendary message board status.

He would be the man behind the chin, the supportive professional business Pi, helping to grow the empire.

Then, right out of the blue, he got an itchy left nut, from yet another crab bite, ate another forkful of Kraft Dinner, picked the weiner gristle out of his rotting teeth with the corner of his old condom wrapper, belched loudly, and snapped back to earth.
Quick definitions (imbecile)

# noun: a person of subnormal intelligence
# adjective: having a mental age of three to seven years

:1apileoff

[Piinthesky]

You know Square Pig, you go after Hep here now, bashing her, right left and center, even though previously, you, and your little bone smoking buddy Doc the Soc worshipped the fucking bandwidth she walked on.

Um, maybe Doc did, maybe he didn't but I can damn sure tell you that I never worshipped the ground she walked on. And why are you acting the hypocrite all of a sudden, in defense of her when you've said plenty about her behind her back in Rev's Hell (that's their private moderators only section). I at least have the integrity to say to her out in open forum what I think of her, rather than just behind her back in closed forum and I say it with my one and only user ID too. Piece of chickenshit that you and others really are, act all friendly to her out in the open but you laugh AT her behind her back in private.

Hep and I may not see eye to eye on most things and we probably really do not like each other but at least we are not afraid of public opinion as to what we say to each other in open forum and we do so with known user ID's of who we are.

Don't forget your now legendary fantasy Square Pig, it was a classic, and enjoyed by many. For those who may have missed it, here it is, for Auld Lang Syne, imbecile.

Seriously dude, I don't get it, who was the author of that senseless little diddy? Was it you? Because if it was then hep at least needs to make note of the exact language portrayed within it and consider who wrote said language and realise that you are not her friend either, by your very descriptive wording.

[Piinthesky]

My gawd hep, are you that blind and stupid to not see that you are being used by these people and set up to take a fall??

[Hepburn]

Luke has never been my friend, as the anon he/she is now, or as he/she is known as. However, with that said, this person is also not my enemy.

The other thread, you accused cyberbully of being fiset. You are wrong.

You are also wrong saying Revs is full of bigots. They speak their mind and devil take the hindmost. I respect that. They dont care what anyone thinks of them. I respect that as well.

None of them have ever threatened me to "be nice" to them "or else" like you have.

None have threatened me to "like" someone you deem likable, "or else".

Im sure most in Revs private forum have had a beef with me and said so.

Just as I KNOW you did the same in Area51 and private chat at Docs.

Your whole beef with Revs was you wanted to know who noguru was here at trs. And you wouldnt rest until you bitched about it nonstop and got answers. And you were pissed because i said I liked noguru, so you made a point of showing me what he was saying at another board just to get me to NOT like him, and it didnt work. Therefore, I became your enemy because you could not mold me. And now you want to play the plead game of "are you blind? Youre being set up" routine. Save it. I am neither blind, nor stupid. Nor was I blind concerning what you were doing and attempted to do.

I dont like you. I damn sure dont trust you. And I really dont take kindly to threats. So do your worst, asshole.

[Piinthesky]

Pot kettle black on the supposed threats hep. It was real telling and obvious how you like to use threats when you threatened Maggie and then she called your bluff and made a pre emptive strike against you by posting about you what you threatened to post about her and how about the threats you made against terri in the threads that have now been deleted. Oh yeah, you who threatens as much or more as you accuse others of. Man that's rich.

You know nothing about what my beef was with rev's.

[Hepburn]

Go ahead and drag maggie in it, Pi.

No comment about deleted threads. They were deleted for a reason.

You threatened me and I dont take them lightly. I knew then what kind of person you are and I backed away accordingly. Then you come sniffing after another poster at TF, as an anon.

I know enough about what went on at Revs because YOU told about it in area51 as well as chat at Docs. And I got confirmation from those you bitched out that you THOUGHT were keeping secrets from you. Youre an idiot, you are not as smart as you like to think you are or pretend to be, and I personally am thankful I found out about you when I did. Nothing like wasting time on losers, which you are and which I almost did.

So continue your attempts to fit in here and get others to join you in your vendetta against me. Its quite obvious thats your goal. Good luck with it.

If their is a fucktard system here, you are the pond scum tier.

[Hepburn]

their=there

[Maggie]

Pi please don't drag me into this.. I have enough problems right now.. I seriously couldn't handle another..not now.. thanks.

[Piinthesky]

edit; Maggie = Bigred

Hows that? :2headspin

----------------------------------------------

Nothing like wasting time on losers, which you are and which I almost did.

Did you really refer to your sister's grandson, who is a special needs child as, A KID A CAN SHORT OF A FULL PACK? Because if you did do that then who gives a flyingfuck WHO you think is a loser and not worthy of time being wasted on. You actually believe that, that kid is a loser don't you and just because he's a special needs child?

and get others to join you in your vendetta against me. Its quite obvious thats your goal.

You're doing pretty good to get people against you all on your own, flapping your jowls about anyone and everyone including your own family. I don't need a vendetta.

[paleryder]

More smoking crackdowns, and now the fashion police may be turned loose in Atlanta.

Pull those britches up, hide those bra straps!

More companies shut out workers who smoke
Updated 1d 2h ago

By Stephanie Armour, USA TODAY

Employees who smoke are fast becoming an endangered species as companies ban smoking on all corporate grounds, including parking and other outdoor areas where smokers were once allowed to gather.
It's a radical change from just a decade ago, when smoking was tolerated even if frowned upon. But now being a smoker on the job can even risk your job as more companies pass policies banning the hiring of smokers. What some employers are doing:

•On July 4, Rex Healthcare and several other hospitals in the Raleigh, N.C., region announced that their hospital campuses were implementing a completely tobacco-free policy — a bold move because tobacco is a cash crop in the state. The policy bans smoking on all campuses, but the hospitals are offering cessation programs as well as other assistance for smokers.

•L-3 Communications' division in Camden, N.J., last year implemented a smoke-free policy that bans employees from smoking within 25 feet of the building. The company also developed a smoking-cessation program with hypnosis, discounts on cessation aids such as the nicotine patch and gum, as well as on-site counseling to monitor employees' cessation programs. The defense contractor has had 10 employees who successfully quit smoking.

L-3 facilities supervisor Gerald Rugletic, 60, a 50-year smoker, has quit smoking for 10 months through his company's support. "It helped sway me to quit smoking," he says. "I think it's good they're banning it outside."

•As an employer and health care system, the Cleveland Clinic recently announced a no-smoking policy that will begin Sept. 1. That includes outside the buildings. One enterprising resident near the clinic lets employees smoke in his yard for $1.

The not-for-profit multispecialty academic medical center will begin screening potential employees for nicotine as a part of the standard health and wellness screening during their preplacement physical exam. An applicant who tests positive through the urine test will not be considered for employment until he or she has quit for two weeks. Current employees who smoke will not be fired.

•Software company SAS banned tobacco in July in all company leased or owned vehicles and buildings in the USA. That means no smoking is allowed on the 900-acre campus in Cary, N.C., either inside or outside the buildings. Those caught smoking are reminded of the policy on the first offense.

Some smokers say there are benefits to smoking, however, and wonder if anti-smoking policies are going too far.

"I'm the only smoker at my current office, which has resulted in me cutting down my smoking significantly. Responses I've received from most of my co-workers (include) anything from 'tsk tsk' to lectures on how smoking is bad for you," writes Zoey Farooq in an e-mail. The 30-year-old Boston resident works in marketing.

"In my previous company," she writes, "I had one to two co-workers who smoked, and it really helped us bond (and take breaks from work)."


USATODAY (http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2007-08-22-nosmoke_N.htm)




Atlanta Considers Banning Baggy Pants

Aug 23 01:37 PM US/Eastern

ATLANTA (AP) - Baggy pants that show boxer shorts or thongs would be illegal under a proposed amendment to Atlanta's indecency laws.
The amendment, sponsored by city councilman C.T. Martin, states that sagging pants are an "epidemic" that is becoming a "major concern" around the country.

"Little children see it and want to adopt it, thinking it's the in thing," Martin said Wednesday. "I don't want young people thinking that half-dressing is the way to go. I want them to think about their future."

The proposed ordinance would also bar women from showing the strap of a thong beneath their pants. They would also be prohibited from wearing jogging bras in public or show a bra strap, said Debbie Seagraves, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Georgia.


The proposed ordinance states that "the indecent exposure of his or her undergarments" would be unlawful in a public place. It would go in the same portion of the city code that outlaws sex in public and the exposure or fondling of genitals.

The penalty would be a fine in an amount to be determined, Martin said.

But Seagraves said any legislation that creates a dress code would not survive a court challenge. She said the law could not be enforced in a nondiscriminatory way because it targets something that came out of the black youth culture.

"This is a racial profiling bill that promotes and establishes a framework for an additional type of racial profiling," Seagraves said.

Martin, who is black, said he plans to hold public hearings and vet the proposal through churches, civil rights groups and neighborhood organizations. The proposal will get its first public airing next Tuesday in the City Council's Public Safety Committee.

"The purpose of the paper is to generate some conversation to see if we can find a solution," Martin said. "It will be like all the discussions we've had around the value of the hip-hop culture. We know there are First Amendment issues ... and some will say I'm just trying to put young black men in jail, but it's going to be fines."

Makeda Johnson, an Atlanta mother of a 14-year-old girl, said she is glad Martin introduced the proposal. She does not want to see a law against clothing, but said she thinks teenagers are sending a message with a way of dressing that is based in jailhouse behavior.

Atlanta would not be the first city to take on sagging pants.

Earlier this year, the town council in Delcambre, La., passed an ordinance that carries a fine of up to $500 or six months in jail for exposing underwear in public. Several other municipalities and parish governments in Louisiana have enacted similar laws in recent months.



source (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8R6SCL80&show_article=1&catnum=-1)

[kim]

all that other stuff aside - it makes sense for companies to ban smoking cuz they don't want to get sued for causing somebody's cancer from second hand smoke - there would be / have been lawsuits of that kind...

- see...?

[kim]

p.s. i've had it / i've got it (!) / we could all get rich...!

- let's sue all the car companies for making us sick...

...(come on you all it could work)...

[paleryder]

Is showing a bra strap more offensive, than those who don't wear a bra?

Will a frisk be necessary in some cases?

Open your coat lady, we had a nip tip that you are braless today, and now you have to pay!

:2gamecock

:1chirol_r

[kim]

- we can go topless in public here...

...([i]we won that right if men can so can women[i])...

p.s. i do it all the time...

- rofl...

p.p.s. of course i'm teasing (not about the law tho)...

[foptiludrop]

I once got out of a speeding ticket cuz I was driving (speeding) topless and the Highway Patrolman who pulled me over couldn't decide whether to haul me in for "indecent exposure" or issue me a ticket for going 75 in a 55; finally, he decided to call off all charges once he'd had a nice long look at my nubile breasts. No outstanding warrants and lovely "nickels" pointing UP saved the day!

[kim]

- rofl my getting away with it story which was basically about how i'm such a charming goofball doesn't measure up to that altho it worked i suppose cuz i really am hahaha anyway g'night i'm off to watch an ice-t movie...

[foptiludrop]

Ice-T??? You're forsaking my buxom ticket-voiding tits for Ice-T???

(Oh, the shame... the destitution... I'm gonna cry myself to sleep!)

[Pam]

My son just had surgery for a massive bedsore that could be seen, plus one that was under the surface. This wasn't caused by anybody's carelessness, the hospital he was originally in was one where he teaches certain classes to all the nurses AND doctors. He's "one of them", nobody else could have taken better care of him. They knew the sore was forming, they did everything they could. BUT, they couldn't turn him; every time they tried, his lungs collapsed onto his heart and they nearly lost him (in addition to all the other reasons they were nearly losing him). They had him on a big air bed that slowly turned the upper side of his body, to help the pneumonia/ARDS/septic shock, but it couldn't move him enough to prevent the sore.

He was in the hospital for nearly two weeks this time, just came home yesterday by ambulance, and has several more weeks' recuperation for this particular step in his journey towards survival. The wound specialists had tried for months to help the healing without surgery, but it would only have gotten worse, especially with that place under the surface.

How would the hospital/insurance company/court view this case?

[paleryder]

Don't know, Pam. I haven't been back to this thread for awile.

Anyway, as employers trim more from company insurance plans......a new record! :2gamecock

Poverty Rate Declines; Number of Uninsured Rises to Record High

By Christopher Lee and N.C. Aizenman
Washington Post Staff Write
Tuesday, August 28, 2007; 4:48 PM

The nation's poverty rate declined for the first time this decade, but the number of Americans without health insurance rose to a record high of 47 million in 2006, according to Census figures released today


On the national level, however, the statistics offered a decidedly mixed picture of the economy's ongoing recovery from the recession of 2000-2001. While median household income rose for the second consecutive year in 2006, at $48,201 it still has not reached the level of 2001, when the economy hit rock bottom, or the pre-recession high of 1999.

The increase in this year's median household income appeared to be largely due to a jump in the number of people in each household taking on full-time jobs, rather than a rise in wages. In fact, earnings of both men and women declined by just over 1 percent.

Everywhere you turn, in communities, at statehouses and in Congress, discussions are taking place about how to fix the troubled state of our fractured health care system," Risa Lavizzo-Mourey, president of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, a non-partisan health care research and advocacy organization , said in a statement. "When millions of hard-working men and women do not have health insurance themselves, and cannot cover their children, it raises serious clinical, economic and moral concerns about how we as a nation will meet the needs of our people."


WashingtonPost (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/28/AR2007082800779.html?hpid=topnews)

[snowyegret]

Pam, that is a matter of priorities and which takes highest priority. Cardiovascular stability takes precedence over keeping the skin intact. If he was coding when they turned him, well, if they had persisted in turning him, he could have died or too much interruption of O2 to the brain could have caused brain damage, and multiple codes are very hard on the organs. It was more important to keep his CV system as stable as possible. The wound and its care can be dealt with later.

[paleryder]

Will your boss reverse course? Make the healthy ones pony up? :1eek2:

Fat People Cheaper to Treat, Study Says
February 5, 2008 - 2:58am

By MARIA CHENG
AP Medical Writer

LONDON (AP) - Preventing obesity and smoking can save lives, but it doesn't save money, researchers reported Monday. It costs more to care for healthy people who live years longer, according to a Dutch study that counters the common perception that preventing obesity would save governments millions of dollars.

"It was a small surprise," said Pieter van Baal, an economist at the Netherlands' National Institute for Public Health and the Environment, who led the study. "But it also makes sense. If you live longer, then you cost the health system more."

In a paper published online Monday in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal, Dutch researchers found that the health costs of thin and healthy people in adulthood are more expensive than those of either fat people or smokers.

Van Baal and colleagues created a model to simulate lifetime health costs for three groups of 1,000 people: the "healthy-living" group (thin and non-smoking), obese people, and smokers. The model relied on "cost of illness" data and disease prevalence in the Netherlands in 2003.

The researchers found that from age 20 to 56, obese people racked up the most expensive health costs. But because both the smokers and the obese people died sooner than the healthy group, it cost less to treat them in the long run.

On average, healthy people lived 84 years. Smokers lived about 77 years, and obese people lived about 80 years. Smokers and obese people tended to have more heart disease than the healthy people.

Cancer incidence, except for lung cancer, was the same in all three groups. Obese people had the most diabetes, and healthy people had the most strokes. Ultimately, the thin and healthy group cost the most, about $417,000, from age 20 on.

The cost of care for obese people was $371,000, and for smokers, about $326,000.

The results counter the common perception that preventing obesity will save health systems worldwide millions of dollars.

"This throws a bucket of cold water onto the idea that obesity is going to cost trillions of dollars," said Patrick Basham, a professor of health politics at Johns Hopkins University who was unconnected to the study. He said that government projections about obesity costs are frequently based on guesswork, political agendas, and changing science.

"If we're going to worry about the future of obesity, we should stop worrying about its financial impact," he said.

Obesity experts said that fighting the epidemic is about more than just saving money.

"The benefits of obesity prevention may not be seen immediately in terms of cost savings in tomorrow's budget, but there are long-term gains," said Neville Rigby, spokesman for the International Association for the Study of Obesity. "These are often immeasurable when it comes to people living longer and healthier lives."

Van Baal described the paper as "a book-keeping exercise," and said that governments should recognize that successful smoking and obesity prevention programs mean that people will have a higher chance of dying of something more expensive later in life.

"Lung cancer is a cheap disease to treat because people don't survive very long," van Baal said. "But if they are old enough to get Alzheimer's one day, they may survive longer and cost more."

The study, paid for by the Dutch Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sports, did not take into account other potential costs of obesity and smoking, such as lost economic productivity or social costs.

"We are not recommending that governments stop trying to prevent obesity," van Baal said. "But they should do it for the right reasons."

___

On the Net:

PLoS: http://medicine.plosjournals.org

wtop (http://www.wtop.com/?nid=106&sid=1339019)

[VocalVixen]

At this rate, if you are an American, are overweight, smoke, drink or breathe (global warming is ruining the air) you should just quit your job, apply for welfare and medicare and let the government take care of you.

Oh, wait, they need the money that the overweight, smoking, drinking, breathing workers provide to Social Security for the truly disabled Americans.

Those on disability who need their benefits will suffer greatly if corporate America passes on some very experienced and good workers because of weight or habits. Instead, they should invest in gym memberships and smoking cessation assistance and keep not only good employees, but contribute to helping those in need.